Replay fumble situation

[BrendanP]

This is what I think about when I can’t sleep at night.

1st and goal at the B3 yard line. Quarterback A7 keeps the ball and the on-field officials signal touchdown. Replay review shows that the quarterback clearly and obviously fumbled the ball at the 1 yard line but there is no clear and obvious recovery. My gut tells me that the ball is placed at the spot of the fumble and it is now 2nd and goal at the 1. Is that correct?

[Kalle]

So you mean that after the TD signal and the whistle the ball is lying on the ground with nobody bothering to pick it up immediately? Weird situation, normally players are taught to pick up a loose ball even after the whistle.

I'm by no means an expert of the IR rules (we don't use them in Europe) and the NCAA IR casebook is not available right now, but doesn't this belong in the rule 12-3-3-d, which requires a clear recovery in the immediate continuing action? So, as there is none, IR cannot do anything about this? I do agree with you that the equitable reversal would be to apply 12-3-3-e with the result being A 2/1.

[Snapper]

This is what I think about when I can’t sleep at night.

1st and goal at the B3 yard line. Quarterback A7 keeps the ball and the on-field officials signal touchdown. Replay review shows that the quarterback clearly and obviously fumbled the ball at the 1 yard line but there is no clear and obvious recovery. My gut tells me that the ball is placed at the spot of the fumble and it is now 2nd and goal at the 1. Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

[Kalle]

Yes, that's correct.

Yeah, this is the casebook play #135, assuming the ball comes to rest in the end zone. If it goes out of bounds in the end zone, it should be reversed to a touchback (play #134).

[bossman72]

Interesting interp that makes sense they did this year that is similar to this. 

Say the offense is backed up and fumbles at their 1, then a pile of players dive on the ball in the end zone.  Officials rule him down at the 1, but replay shows the ball is clearly out.  Even though there is no clear recovery, the ruling is safety, since the real result of the play is either TD or safety and obviously not down at the 1.

[ump_ben]

Interesting interp that makes sense they did this year that is similar to this. 

Say the offense is backed up and fumbles at their 1, then a pile of players dive on the ball in the end zone.  Officials rule him down at the 1, but replay shows the ball is clearly out.  Even though there is no clear recovery, the ruling is safety, since the real result of the play is either TD or safety and obviously not down at the 1.

They should at least give the offense the choice of the safety or the defensive touchdown.   Up 9 with just under two minutes remaining in the game and team B has no timeouts.  This play happens.  With a touchdown, A needs only to prevent B from recovering an onside kick.  After a safety, they have to prevent a touchdown after kicking from their 20.  I could see a coach gambling on taking the safety if they were given the choice.

[bossman72]

They should at least give the offense the choice of the safety or the defensive touchdown.   Up 9 with just under two minutes remaining in the game and team B has no timeouts.  This play happens.  With a touchdown, A needs only to prevent B from recovering an onside kick.  After a safety, they have to prevent a touchdown after kicking from their 20.  I could see a coach gambling on taking the safety if they were given the choice.

How can you prove touchdown though?  There is no clear recovery.  We can't just give the defensive team the ball without a clear recovery.

[ump_ben]

How can you prove touchdown though?  There is no clear recovery.  We can't just give the defensive team the ball without a clear recovery.

You can't prove safety either. If the safety is more advantageous to the defense than the touchdown then it seems you shouldn't just give them that either.  Anywhere else on the field, this is just unreviewable.

[BrendanP]

So you mean that after the TD signal and the whistle the ball is lying on the ground with nobody bothering to pick it up immediately? Weird situation, normally players are taught to pick up a loose ball even after the whistle.

More like the ball disappears into the pile and replay is unable to determine who actually recovered it first. Let’s suppose a member of B comes out of the pile with the ball after the whistle. Does this change anything if A had recovered (outside the end zone to clarify)?