Author Topic: Should this have been replayed?  (Read 5359 times)

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Offline ump_ben

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Should this have been replayed?
« on: October 02, 2020, 08:41:04 PM »
And if so how does one straighten it out.  4th down and short; quarterback sneak and the ball is fumbled on the snap.  (Or technically I should say the ball becomes a backward pass.)  The offensive recovers and is almost to the endzone when it's blown dead as a recovered 4th down fumble short of the line to gain.  Is this reviewable and if so where can you give the ball back to the offense?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2020, 12:40:07 AM »
Inadvertent Whistle.  Replay at the previous spot.  Since it's not a fumble the play shouldn't have be blown dead.  As far as reviewable or not, I don't know the answer to replay rules.

Offline KingTut

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2020, 02:08:47 AM »
Are you referring to BYU game?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQI3sNsw-90
around 1:56
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 02:14:18 AM by KingTut »

Online NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2020, 07:28:35 AM »
Agree with Jason here.  If the snap (by definition a backward pass) is "fumbled" any player, A or B, can recover and advance regardless of the down.  In the case of the BYU play last night, the snap is handled cleanly by the QB and the ball is clearly in his right hand/arm as he then runs directly into the backside of his offensive lineman who is being pushed backward by the defense.  The ball then pops out and is recovered by someone other then the QB.  This play was called correctly IMHO.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2020, 10:04:17 AM »
It is very important to understand and use proper terminology. A snap can not be fumbled. If it is passed (backward) directly and immediately by the snapper, it is a ball loose from a backward pass.  It it comes loose during the attempt to hand it, it becomes a backward pass, and is a ball loose from a backward pass. If a player attempts to gain possession of the ball, loose from a backward pass, touches the ball, but fails to gain possession of the ball, then the ball is muffed and remains loose from the backward pass.
Neither a snap (hand to hand or a backward pass), nor a ball that is not in player possession, can be fumbled.
When discussing rules, we should always use proper terminology.

Offline ump_ben

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 01:22:52 PM »
Agree with Jason here.  If the snap (by definition a backward pass) is "fumbled" any player, A or B, can recover and advance regardless of the down.  In the case of the BYU play last night, the snap is handled cleanly by the QB and the ball is clearly in his right hand/arm as he then runs directly into the backside of his offensive lineman who is being pushed backward by the defense.  The ball then pops out and is recovered by someone other then the QB.  This play was called correctly IMHO.

Are you getting all that from that single view that was rebroadcast (what's in the highlight)?  I'm not really sure whether he had it from that view or not.  My question was about replayability though if it happened the way I described it.  I didn't reference the game that inspired the question because of that.  So for the play as written, reviewable or not?

Offline Kalle

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 02:04:57 PM »
I think that the aspect of whether or not the QB catches the backward pass is reviewable if replay has IVE contrary to the ruling on the field. Other facts are not reviewable, it is an inadvertent whistle if the QB never possessed the snap, replay the down unless the ball carrier was beyond the LTG at the time of the whistle.

Online NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2020, 08:35:11 AM »
Are you getting all that from that single view that was rebroadcast (what's in the highlight)?  I'm not really sure whether he had it from that view or not.  My question was about replayability though if it happened the way I described it.  I didn't reference the game that inspired the question because of that.  So for the play as written, reviewable or not?

Not really.  I going with the fact that QB was under center taking the snap with both hands and when he backs out it's cradled in his right arm.  Additionally, there seems to be pretty quick consensus among the on field officials and no override by the IR official.  Given all of that I believe that the call in the game highlighted here was correct.  Certainly IR has the right to buzz in here if they clearly had a loose ball from the snap (the initial backward pass) but that didn't happen here.

As a generic question as noted in several earlier posts, if the snap is not handled cleanly and muffed, it's not a fumble and any player on the field may recover the loose ball and advance.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 08:58:25 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Should this have been replayed?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2020, 10:11:04 AM »
Disappoints me to see other officials using sloppy terminology.