Targeting live vs dead ball

[ump_ben]

https://twitter.com/CriddleBenjamin/status/1317314411887906816 (ignore the thread post please and assume this is targeting)

On this play on the field we have a dead ball pf on 22 for retaliating on this hit.  Replay then comes in with targeting on the hit. 

Two questions, one should replay carefully scrutinize the moment of contact versus the time the ball hit the ground to make this a dead ball foul?   It'd be near impossible to get live and easy to live with either call, but on replay generated fouls it's easier to know for sure. 
Two, the rules for offsetting deadball fouls talk about two penalties being reported to the referee before either penalty is completed. Suppose the yardage were marked off before the R is buzzed on this play.  If replay comes in after one penalty is completed should we still treat them as reported simultaneously and offset them.  In this case, there is a huge advantage for the offense to have the targeting be a live ball foul or to have the offensive penalty completed first.  And given the recent call of targeting on the ball carrier we could end up with a situation where the defense retaliates and that is enforced and then replay comes in and 1st and 25 seems like a very wrong result for that.

Thoughts?

[dammitbobby]

IMO as far as your first question, yes, they should make that determination since it potentially involves an immediate disqualification. 

I'm not smart enough to give an informed answer as to the second question.

[ump_ben]

IMO as far as your first question, yes, they should make that determination since it potentially involves an immediate disqualification. 

I'm sorry but I don't understand your point; he's out of the game whether they make this a live ball foul or a dead ball foul.

[dammitbobby]

My understanding is that targeting is a live ball foul, not a dead ball foul... 

headed off to the rule book now

[dammitbobby]

yep, can be live or dead ball.  For some reason I was thinking it couldn't be a dead ball foul, that it would have to be called US. 


From 9-1-4-note 2
PENALTY—[ARTICLE 3 and ARTICLE 4]—15 yards. For dead-ball fouls, 15 yards from the succeeding spot.

[ump_ben]

Nobody with an answer on this one?  It could have been relevant again this week.  4th down late in the IU PSU game there's a replay for targeting after an incomplete pass.  Was ruled not targeting but if it had been, it would have been really close on whether ball was still in the air.

[Imperial Stout]

In essence, replay would be reviewing two reviewable plays, targeting, and an incomplete pass and trying to determine what happened first.

I've seen replay take action on a targeting penalty that was ruled on the field to occur after an interception.  Team B was given possession, with the foul marked off after the change of possession.

Replay confirmed targeting, and determined the foul clearly occurred prior to the change of possession.  It was obvious, easy to see at full speed. Team A keeps the ball, 15 yards from the previous spot.   This was very late in a 1 score game, with Mike Defee as the white hat.

I'd think, especially in that 4th down case which would have resulted in a change of possession, replay could take a closer look as to whether the foul occurred after the ball hit the ground. This would be that obvious error that may have a significant impact on the outcome of the game.