Author Topic: Unintended consequence?  (Read 3365 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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Unintended consequence?
« on: October 27, 2020, 12:33:47 PM »
Try these:
1)  4/10, A-40, time and score irrelevant.
A11 legally punts the ball from the A-32. B55 blocks the ball which falls to the ground at the A-34. While the ball is loose, end A88, untouched, steps out of bounds to avoid an opponent. A11 recovers the ball at the A-35, and runs laterally. A88 steps back into the field of play at the B-40, and moves toward the near hash mark. At the A-35, A11 throws a pass to back A20. A20 catches the pass at the B-35, where he is immediately tackled, and the ball is declared dead. (Note: No originally ineligible Team A player has been, or is, more than three yards beyond the NZ when the passed is released.)

2)  4/10, A-40, time and score irrelevant.
A11 legally punts the ball from the A-32. B55 blocks the ball which falls to the ground at the A-34. While the ball is loose, end A88, untouched, steps out of bounds to avoid an opponent. A11 recovers the ball at the A-35, and runs laterally. A88 steps back into the field of play at the B-40, and moves toward the near hash mark. At the A-35, A11 throws a pass toward A88. Just as the ball is arriving to A88, B99 grabs and pulls A88 down, restricting A88 from reaching for the pass. The untouched pass falls to the ground. (Note: No originally ineligible Team A player has been, or is, more than three yards beyond the NZ when the passed is released.)

We could go on and on, like having A11 make a second kick instead of a pass, or A88 touch the pass before any Team B player. But, in both cases above, officially, A88 has made an illegal return to the field of play, even though the kicked ball failed to cross the NZ. In the absence of the kick that failed to cross the NZ, A88 would have done nothing wrong in either of the two given examples. Instead, B can have the penalty at the previous spot, and repeat the down (example 1), or decline the penalty and take the ball at the previous spot (example 2). (Note: No DPI in 2), because A88 wasn't eligible, after being OB voluntarily.)

Maybe an unintended consequence. Easy fix: No Team A player who goes out of bounds during a scrimmage kick play in which the legally kicked ball crosses the neutral zone may return inbounds during the down.


 

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Unintended consequence?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2020, 01:08:06 PM »
Actually, in 2), we might have defensive holding, as I originally scripted the action. In hindsight, I should have said that B99 blocks A88 (plays through the back), restricting A88's ability to reach for the ball.
There. Now that's otherwise legal contact, that, if A88 was eligible, would be DPI. Since A88 isn't eligible, DPI isn't possible on him.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Unintended consequence?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2020, 02:02:09 PM »
One could argue that A’s forward pass actually makes A88’s actions legal because of the new rule language this year that says scrimmage kick play instead of scrimmage kick down. Once a legal forward pass is thrown, all action prior to that becomes a forward pass play. Because the action is no longer during a scrimmage kick play, A88’s return is no longer illegal. Now if a second kick was made instead of a pass, as suggested in your third paragraph, his return would be illegal because it still happened during scrimmage kick play.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Unintended consequence?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2020, 04:17:52 PM »
One could argue that A’s forward pass actually makes A88’s actions legal because of the new rule language this year that says scrimmage kick play instead of scrimmage kick down. Once a legal forward pass is thrown, all action prior to that becomes a forward pass play. Because the action is no longer during a scrimmage kick play, A88’s return is no longer illegal. Now if a second kick was made instead of a pass, as suggested in your third paragraph, his return would be illegal because it still happened during scrimmage kick play.

There is the crux of the issue - the multiple play types during the down. I know of nothing that removes the kick play from the whole down equation, once the legal forward pass is thrown (or vice-versa). Yes, that is also a pass play, during the same down.
Blocking below the waist is prohibited during the entire down when a scrimmage kick is made. There is no exception or provision for a passing play occurring during the same down, that would suddenly make a block below the waist legal.
By the same token, the down could start with a forward pass play, caught behind the NZ, then legally kicked from in/behind the NZ. Suddenly, a block below the waist that was legal during the passing play is now illegal, since this is now a legal kick down.
If somebody can point me to something that declares the last play type of the down to be the governing play type for the entire down, I'd be glad to have that information.