Ref attacked at HS playoff game tonight

[Getting Fat]

any update on Mr. Garcia's condition?

[Clear Lake ref]

RGV President was our clock operator last night. Said he is doing ok, still some soreness but getting better.

[Official_21]

Just another update:
Texas high school football player arrested for attacking ref suspended from all athletic activities
https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-hs-football-player-arrested-for-tackling-ref-suspended-from-all-athletic-activities-033639209.html

Well of course this was going to happen, but thought I'd post it since it is now out there.

[Snapper]

Another news story from what I take is the local paper there:  https://www.themonitor.com/2020/12/14/uil-levies-punishments-duron-lejia-edinburg-high-referee-attack/


1) “I’d like to say that I’m sorry for what happened to my coaches, my family and to the UIL,” Duron said Monday.

No mention in this quote of an apology to the officials.


2) Mr. Duron reportedly received a 3 day suspension from the school.  Is that typically what he would have received had he attacked a member of the school's staff?


3) Mr. Duron reportedly assaulted an official during last year's soccer season.  (Although somewhat less violently than his most recent "hit".)  And according to reports, neither the school, nor the official reported that to the state.  Do you have any requirements in TX to report ejections and/or assaults?

[dammitbobby]

I don't officiate any other sports but yes we do for football, and I can't imagine other sports don't have the same requirement.

I will say though, that there have been instances with officials I have worked with who won't DQ someone, or even allow a 2nd UNS, so they don't have to do an incident report.  That happened to me this year - B was losing very late in 4th, no chance of coming back, and would be eliminated from playoff contention. B55 (made up number) threw a kid down, getting him his 1st UNS.  As he was walking off, he threw the ball at the U, and called the U a MF for flagging it.  U and I both threw flags up on that, WH immediately told us to pick them up, and they weren't enforced. He said it wouldn't impact the game, would benefit no one by tossing him, and that was that.  I still don't agree with it.

All that to say, even if there are rules for other sports, there's lot of situations and/or circumstances where desire to not have to fill out paperwork takes precedence.

[CalhounLJ]

Another news story from what I take is the local paper there:  https://www.themonitor.com/2020/12/14/uil-levies-punishments-duron-lejia-edinburg-high-referee-attack/


1) “I’d like to say that I’m sorry for what happened to my coaches, my family and to the UIL,” Duron said Monday.

No mention in this quote of an apology to the officials.


2) Mr. Duron reportedly received a 3 day suspension from the school.  Is that typically what he would have received had he attacked a member of the school's staff?


3) Mr. Duron reportedly assaulted an official during last year's soccer season.  (Although somewhat less violently than his most recent "hit".)  And according to reports, neither the school, nor the official reported that to the state.  Do you have any requirements in TX to report ejections and/or assaults?

To be fair, his statement could be understood this way: I want my coaches, my family, and the UIL to know I am sorry for what happened.


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[zebrastripes]

I don't officiate any other sports but yes we do for football, and I can't imagine other sports don't have the same requirement.

I will say though, that there have been instances with officials I have worked with who won't DQ someone, or even allow a 2nd UNS, so they don't have to do an incident report.  That happened to me this year - B was losing very late in 4th, no chance of coming back, and would be eliminated from playoff contention. B55 (made up number) threw a kid down, getting him his 1st UNS.  As he was walking off, he threw the ball at the U, and called the U a MF for flagging it.  U and I both threw flags up on that, WH immediately told us to pick them up, and they weren't enforced. He said it wouldn't impact the game, would benefit no one by tossing him, and that was that.  I still don't agree with it.

All that to say, even if there are rules for other sports, there's lot of situations and/or circumstances where desire to not have to fill out paperwork takes precedence.

And why didn’t you tell your white hat to go kick rocks, or at the very least say something to your assigner after the game?

[dammitbobby]

1) I'm a second year official.  I'm in no position to tell a WH how to run his games. 2) we are so short handed that personnel blocks sometimes aren't honored, so it's kind of a moot point, no?

What I took from it, was I learned that if/when I whitehat, that's something I'm NOT going to do. 

[CalhounLJ]

1) I'm a second year official.  I'm in no position to tell a WH how to run his games. 2) we are so short handed that personnel blocks sometimes aren't honored, so it's kind of a moot point, no?

What I took from it, was I learned that if/when I whitehat, that's something I'm NOT going to do.

Naw, the WH was wrong. He needed to be confronted. At least a conversation after the game, plus a call to the assignor.

Question- why do you think your inexperience precludes you from questioning a call/no call? Main objective is to get it right.


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[AlUpstateNY]

To be fair, his statement could be understood this way: I want my coaches, my family, and the UIL to know I am sorry for what happened.


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A harsh lesson we ALL have to learn to survive is "Self Control".  Most are taught by our parents/family, some require additional help (school, coaches, clergy, family friends) the really stubborn among us need special attention (Police or even Correctional Officer) but sooner or later, we ALL have to LEARN, and the price goes up, substantially, at each level.

The rest of us get opportunities to help along the way, we can  choose to help with the teaching, or let that pass to the next, more expensive level. Nothing teaches , reluctant learners as well as the consequences earned and paid, for past mistakes.

[dammitbobby]

Naw, the WH was wrong. He needed to be confronted. At least a conversation after the game, plus a call to the assignor.

Question- why do you think your inexperience precludes you from questioning a call/no call? Main objective is to get it right.

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For this specifically, because the issue wasn't whether or not it was a foul - he framed it as game management, there's nothing good going to come from it no benefit to anyone. not going to impact the game, pick it up. I'm not going to refuse to pick it up.

More in general - If we had a crew huddle for something, I would give my opinion if asked... if I didn't get a chance to give input, I absolutely would ask for a quick clarification, if I felt I didn't understand the issue/rationale, or ask to make sure we talk about it at the half/end of game.

[bctgp]

So if you choose to ignore a legitimate UNS foul. What do you do if he goes on to commit a 3rd or 4th UNS - ignore them too in the name of game management?

[dammitbobby]

I didn't ignore it, I flagged it. If he did it again, I'd flag that too.  Disposition is on the WH.

[CalhounLJ]

I didn't ignore it, I flagged it. If he did it again, I'd flag that too.  Disposition is on the WH.

Maybe. But you arrived as a crew and you will leave as a crew. As a crew member you have the right and responsibility to offer input and accountability.

I’ve picked up crewmate flags before for various reasons, and always make it a point to talk with the guy after the game. I also invite my crew to talk with me about anything, and if they are not satisfied with that, call our assignor. The worst thing a crew can do is break the line of communication.


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[AlUpstateNY]

Maybe. But you arrived as a crew and you will leave as a crew. As a crew member you have the right and responsibility to offer input and accountability.

I’ve picked up crewmate flags before for various reasons, and always make it a point to talk with the guy after the game. I also invite my crew to talk with me about anything, and if they are not satisfied with that, call our assignor. The worst thing a crew can do is break the line of communication.


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Crew "discussions" to address differing perspectives are simply part of the game, aimed at clarification.  However, they should be held (as much as possible) in private amongst ONLY the crew.  When necessary uninvolved crew members should help keep intruders away from the discussion.  The discussion should be civil, controlled and never demonstrative and produce a unified conclusion.  As crew chief, Referee has the final decision (on the field) ending any and all dissent.

After the game, in the confines of the Crew's privacy, discussion may continue to verify the accuracy of the decision.  If questions linger, the issue should ultimately be reviewed by the Chapter Interpreter, who would decide the issue, and what if any remedial activity is appropriate and how the final determination should be shared with the participating schools.

Referees should encourage such discussion, when appropriate, to insure the full knowledge of the entire crew is being properly utilized to avoid mistakes.

[CalhounLJ]

Crew "discussions" to address differing perspectives are simply part of the game, aimed at clarification.  However, they should be held (as much as possible) in private amongst ONLY the crew.  When necessary uninvolved crew members should help keep intruders away from the discussion.  The discussion should be civil, controlled and never demonstrative and produce a unified conclusion.  As crew chief, Referee has the final decision (on the field) ending any and all dissent.

After the game, in the confines of the Crew's privacy, discussion may continue to verify the accuracy of the decision.  If questions linger, the issue should ultimately be reviewed by the Chapter Interpreter, who would decide the issue, and what if any remedial activity is appropriate and how the final determination should be shared with the participating schools.

Referees should encourage such discussion, when appropriate, to insure the full knowledge of the entire crew is being properly utilized to avoid mistakes.

I’m impressed. You used a lot more words to say what I said.


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[AlUpstateNY]

1) I'm a second year official.  I'm in no position to tell a WH how to run his games. 2) we are so short handed that personnel blocks sometimes aren't honored, so it's kind of a moot point, no?

What I took from it, was I learned that if/when I whitehat, that's something I'm NOT going to do.

Sounds like you learned, and took from, this exchange the "right" message. There's always two things you can learn from an experience; What to do should you run into a similar problem again, and what to AVOID in similar situations.  Discussion, clarification, consensus are GOOD things, confrontation, especially "on the field" is NEVER helpful and can cause all sorts of additional UNNECESSARY problems.

Like arguing with your wife, in front of the children, NEVER a good idea.