Author Topic: Playoffs - Week 5  (Read 24663 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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Playoffs - Week 5
« on: December 05, 2022, 03:19:21 PM »
Week 5 is up!

I do not have information as to who is calling 6 man championship games next week; if you know, please let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2suqji5p3bqd55/2022%20TXHSFB%20Brackets%20and%20Chapter%20Assignments%20week%205.0.pdf?dl=0

Offline Txgarza

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2022, 07:47:24 PM »
What chapter works Cueros regular season games?

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2022, 10:45:14 PM »
My guess is San Antonio but could be Corpus Christi

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2022, 08:59:33 AM »
I mapped the locations of the games this week. 17 of the 20 games this week fall right along the I-35 / I-45 corridors (within the Denton-San Antonio-Houston triangle). There is one in Sweetwater, one in Abilene, and one in Mineral Wells. Nothing West of Sweetwater. Three chapters outside that triangle being used (San Angelo, Corpus Christi, Tyler), but even those are tied to geography. Angelo @ Sweetwater -  nearest chapter that had worked neither team. Tyler appears to be in a similar situation. Same for Corpus.
Speaks nothing to the ability of any chapter, anywhere. IMHO, all chapters have folks fully capable and qualified to work any UIL game. It is almost all pure geography.

Congratulations to those that have games this week. Do justice to the game of football, and to your brotherhood in the officiating community. But, please, make the teams pause for one full second before they snap the ball, and don't let defensive lines use abrupt movements (intended to cause a false start, whether it does or not), or let defensive teams use disconcerting signals. Have the courage to make these calls.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2022, 10:46:25 AM »
re abrupt movements, had that conversation a couple weeks a a 'top crew' member on a way to a playoff game. Was told that shouldn't be called; his logic was that defense is at such a disadvantage with the way rules are now, as long as they don't cross NZ, no foul.

I completely disagree with that.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2022, 10:54:04 AM »
re abrupt movements, had that conversation a couple weeks a a 'top crew' member on a way to a playoff game. Was told that shouldn't be called; his logic was that defense is at such a disadvantage with the way rules are now, as long as they don't cross NZ, no foul.

I completely disagree with that.

Oh, wow. I guess I forgot that we get to pick and choose the rules we will enforce. Silly me. What was I possibly thinking?
And the UIL doesn't think there is anything wrong with their assignment policy...

Offline JBall

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2022, 11:52:49 AM »
re abrupt movements, had that conversation a couple weeks a a 'top crew' member on a way to a playoff game. Was told that shouldn't be called; his logic was that defense is at such a disadvantage with the way rules are now, as long as they don't cross NZ, no foul.

I completely disagree with that.
Sounds like he knows which team picked his crew and what they like to do. 

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 12:59:40 PM »
Sounds like he knows which team picked his crew and what they like to do.

At the risk of seeming repetitious:
"And the UIL doesn't think there is anything wrong with their assignment policy..."

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2022, 02:01:09 PM »
While I would never wish ill things to happen to a crew, the day will come when UIL will have a big mess on their hands, in the form of crew coercion, tampering, whatever you want to call it, and it will be very, very ugly.  And it will make all of us look bad.

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2022, 02:40:59 PM »
re abrupt movements, had that conversation a couple weeks a a 'top crew' member on a way to a playoff game. Was told that shouldn't be called; his logic was that defense is at such a disadvantage with the way rules are now, as long as they don't cross NZ, no foul.

I completely disagree with that.
so do the rules and secretary rules editor.


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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2022, 03:47:32 PM »
so do the rules and secretary rules editor.


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And I spent a lot of time preparing, and making, presentations on Abrupt Defensive Movements and Disconcerting Signals for the State Meeting back in July. It would seem some folks a) weren't there and didn't talk, or listen, to anybody that WAS there, or b) consciously choose to ignore the rules and TASO direction, whether they were at the meeting or not.

If I were king...

Offline Etref

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2022, 04:30:06 PM »
And I spent a lot of time preparing, and making, presentations on Abrupt Defensive Movements and Disconcerting Signals for the State Meeting back in July. It would seem some folks a) weren't there and didn't talk, or listen, to anybody that WAS there, or b) consciously choose to ignore the rules and TASO direction, whether they were at the meeting or not.

If I were king...


But, but, I thought Elvis was the King!
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2022, 04:48:57 PM »

But, but, I thought Elvis was the King!

Kinda like fake news, I'm the fake king... 8]

Offline peterparsons

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2022, 04:36:44 AM »
We had our local chapter meeting this week and one of the quarter final matchups provided us with a lot of "interesting content" for discussion.

Offline Redriverref

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2022, 11:33:20 AM »
I liked the play that was posted on social media where Team A snapped it at the B 29 and B was flagged for DPI in the end zone and the following play was snapped at the two yard line.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2022, 11:42:46 AM »
I liked the play that was posted on social media where Team A snapped it at the B 29 and B was flagged for DPI in the end zone and the following play was snapped at the two yard line.

Oh, dear. Somebody needs a little re-training.

Offline CosmoKramer

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2022, 12:03:39 PM »
I liked the play that was posted on social media where Team A snapped it at the B 29 and B was flagged for DPI in the end zone and the following play was snapped at the two yard line.

Shall we take bets that the crew also did not complete the rules misapplication form that gets sent to TASO and UIL?  We all know mistakes can, and will, happen.  However, in a 4th round playoff game this kind of mistake simply cannot, and should not, happen.  Heck, if I was a coach I'd pick that crew every time.  I would then throw the ball into the end zone from mid-field knowing a DPI will put the ball at the 2 yard line.  LOL

Offline JDM

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2022, 12:20:26 PM »
I mapped the locations of the games this week. 17 of the 20 games this week fall right along the I-35 / I-45 corridors (within the Denton-San Antonio-Houston triangle). There is one in Sweetwater, one in Abilene, and one in Mineral Wells. Nothing West of Sweetwater. Three chapters outside that triangle being used (San Angelo, Corpus Christi, Tyler), but even those are tied to geography. Angelo @ Sweetwater -  nearest chapter that had worked neither team. Tyler appears to be in a similar situation. Same for Corpus.
Speaks nothing to the ability of any chapter, anywhere. IMHO, all chapters have folks fully capable and qualified to work any UIL game. It is almost all pure geography.

Congratulations to those that have games this week. Do justice to the game of football, and to your brotherhood in the officiating community. But, please, make the teams pause for one full second before they snap the ball, and don't let defensive lines use abrupt movements (intended to cause a false start, whether it does or not), or let defensive teams use disconcerting signals. Have the courage to make these calls.

We called DOD for abrupt movement by the defense as well as DSC during the regular season. Our approach will not change this week.

On another note in a Regional playoff game earlier, one of the coaches described an abrupt "stemming" play. We advised that if we felt it caused FST, we'd put it on the defense. He looked at my U and I and pondered for a moment and said "okay". They didn't "stem" once.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2022, 01:32:28 PM »
We called DOD for abrupt movement by the defense as well as DSC during the regular season. Our approach will not change this week.

On another note in a Regional playoff game earlier, one of the coaches described an abrupt "stemming" play. We advised that if we felt it caused FST, we'd put it on the defense. He looked at my U and I and pondered for a moment and said "okay". They didn't "stem" once.

I hope you didn't tell him that, explicitly. A foul for an abrupt defensive movement intended to cause a false start does NOT require a reaction by Team A. It is a foul, with, or without a reaction by Team A. When the coaches understand that there simply is no way to legally CAUSE a false start, and, in fact, defenses are not allowed to even TRY to cause a false start, then, maybe, this whole 'stemming' business will go away.  (WTF does 'stemming' mean, anyway?)
Coaches keep asking how they may move, legally. When I show them, they have looks on their faces like, "Well, that's not gonna cause anybody to jump." No s----, Sherlock. They try to convince us that they need to move abruptly to change their positioning to make it more difficult for Team A to block them. To which I respond, "So, why do you need to move abruptly, when an easy movement gets the job done, without risk of causing a false start?" They stumble around trying to justify the abrupt movement, when, in fact, they are only doing this to try to get Team A to false start.
Does the offense have an advantage with respect to the snap count? Yes, but only with respect to verbal commands. The signal caller is permitted to use whatever verbal commands, cadence, inflection and/or volume he wants. Team A has the advantage there, and that is how the Rules Committee has wanted for at least 51 years (probably longer, but that's the limit of my involvement, to date).
But, just as the defense (in the area near the neutral zone) is not allowed to make abrupt movements intended to cause a false start, the offensive signal caller may not bob his head and/or shoulders, 'chuck' his arms (thrust them up, down, forward or backward), drop his body, take a step, or make any other body movement - except clapping of the hands - that can be interpreted - by the officials - as the start of a down. Such movements are, in fact, intended to cause a defensive offside. Yes, verbally, Team A may cause a DOF. But, they may not use body movements to cause a DOF. So, there is 'equity' on that point.

Sorry, coach. You CAN'T cause team A to false start. End of story. Not our interpretation. It is the rule, and the direction officials are given by the NCAA (to which, the UIL has no 'exception'). Those of us in TASO - to a man/woman - simply have to understand and accept this rule, and have the courage to make these calls.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2022, 10:25:13 PM »
I liked the play that was posted on social media where Team A snapped it at the B 29 and B was flagged for DPI in the end zone and the following play was snapped at the two yard line.

Surprised there hasn't been a separate thread on this yet.  They did it twice.  First one, ball was at 21 with DPI at the 3, and ball was placed at the 10 1/2 instead of the 6.  Second one, ball was at 28 with DPI in EZ, and ball was placed at the 2.

Offline peterparsons

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2022, 03:23:03 AM »
Surprised there hasn't been a separate thread on this yet.  They did it twice.  First one, ball was at 21 with DPI at the 3, and ball was placed at the 10 1/2 instead of the 6.  Second one, ball was at 28 with DPI in EZ, and ball was placed at the 2.

That sounds like the same game we were watching clips from. There was another one in that game where the ball was snapped from (if I remember correctly) the 31, the DPI happened around the 20 and the next snap was from the 16.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2022, 04:43:05 AM »
That sounds like the same game we were watching clips from. There was another one in that game where the ball was snapped from (if I remember correctly) the 31, the DPI happened around the 20 and the next snap was from the 16.

Three blown DPI enforcements in a single game? Auch - that crew definitely needs further training in penalty enforcement.

Offline Covid 22

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2022, 09:00:36 AM »
There are more than a few possible culprits that should be looked at because of this.   The crew is not the problem.   Their only discretion was to accept a game they were clearly not qualified to work.  They absolutely did a horrible job but I am guessing that it is the same job they did all season.   The problem lies with either the coaches or the leadership of the chapter especially the Game Assigner.   

Just a SWAG based on things I know about a few of the assigners in the past.   This is a crew that is probably long in the tooth and this was a reward for many years of dedicated officiating.   I know of one crew that was guaranteed by the assigner to get a State Championship game if the chapter received one (this chapter almost always does).  Covid hit and the crew disbanded (HL & R retired).   If this was a coach's choice for whatever reason, the chapter should have denied the request.   If they did not realize the weakness of this crew, shame on them.   If they did know the weakness of the crew, ten times the shame on them.  I don't really have a problem with rewarding a dedicated official but surround him with the best support crew to make it a (good) memorable reward, not the plane crash that happened.

A recommendation for all new or upcoming R's.   Make sure that your crew is ready for the level of game you accept assignments for.   Before the season, assign one member of your crew to special/difficult rules as a backup for your brain farts.  In my case, I assigned the U penalty enforcement.  The HL got timing issues (ie: 10 sec runoff, teams choice for starting the clock at the end of a half, etc.) The BJ got the kicking game.  The LJ got the passing game.   Each one was to know their section completely and we used this for most pre-games. 

Just my $0.10   


Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2022, 09:48:41 AM »
There are more than a few possible culprits that should be looked at because of this.   The crew is not the problem.   Their only discretion was to accept a game they were clearly not qualified to work.  They absolutely did a horrible job but I am guessing that it is the same job they did all season.   The problem lies with either the coaches or the leadership of the chapter especially the Game Assigner.   

Just a SWAG based on things I know about a few of the assigners in the past.   This is a crew that is probably long in the tooth and this was a reward for many years of dedicated officiating.   I know of one crew that was guaranteed by the assigner to get a State Championship game if the chapter received one (this chapter almost always does).  Covid hit and the crew disbanded (HL & R retired).   If this was a coach's choice for whatever reason, the chapter should have denied the request.   If they did not realize the weakness of this crew, shame on them.   If they did know the weakness of the crew, ten times the shame on them.  I don't really have a problem with rewarding a dedicated official but surround him with the best support crew to make it a (good) memorable reward, not the plane crash that happened.

A recommendation for all new or upcoming R's.   Make sure that your crew is ready for the level of game you accept assignments for.   Before the season, assign one member of your crew to special/difficult rules as a backup for your brain farts.  In my case, I assigned the U penalty enforcement.  The HL got timing issues (ie: 10 sec runoff, teams choice for starting the clock at the end of a half, etc.) The BJ got the kicking game.  The LJ got the passing game.   Each one was to know their section completely and we used this for most pre-games. 

Just my $0.10
Not sure what the "level of the game" has to with this. If a crew can't correctly assess a DPI penalty, they are not ready for any level of contest.


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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Playoffs - Week 5
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2022, 10:20:18 AM »
  Just my $0.10

What the hell? Used to be $0.02. Inflation? Supply chain? Russia collusion?  (Nothing personal. Just saw an opportunity to be a real "wise-acre." I'll get back to work, now. Break's over.)