Somewhat interesting discussion

[ElvisLives]

For NCAA, I don't think there is any question about the ruling, but under some other rules, these events have a stirred up a hornets nest.


4/10, A-30, 5:00 (2), A=7, B=7.
A11's legal punt lands at the B-40 and bounces to the B-30 where A88 muffs an attempt to recover the ball. B99 then successfully recovers the ball while upright and advances to the 50, where he runs out of bounds. During B99's runback, the Head Line Judge, back-pedal fading toward A's goal line in the restricted area, runs into a Team B coach.
Ruling:

[CalhounLJ]

For NCAA, I don't think there is any question about the ruling, but under some other rules, these events have a stirred up a hornets nest.


4/10, A-30, 5:00 (2), A=7, B=7.
A11's legal punt lands at the B-40 and bounces to the B-30 where A88 muffs an attempt to recover the ball. B99 then successfully recovers the ball while upright and advances to the 50, where he runs out of bounds. During B99's runback, the Head Line Judge, back-pedal fading toward A's goal line in the restricted area, runs into a Team B coach.
Ruling:

In Nfhs the ball is dead when recovered by B99, so the situation should never occur. But, if it did, it's a no harm, no foul situation. A coach can be in the restricted area while the ball is dead, so at best it's incidental contact.

[Kalle]

In Nfhs the ball is dead when recovered by B99, so the situation should never occur.

Really? So team B loses their right to advance the ball if team A touches the kicked ball beyond the NZ?

[Snapper]

Really? So team B loses their right to advance the ball if team A touches the kicked ball beyond the NZ?

No, not under either code.  I think he misread the play situation.

[Snapper]

In Nfhs the ball is dead when recovered by B99, so the situation should never occur. But, if it did, it's a no harm, no foul situation. A coach can be in the restricted area while the ball is dead, so at best it's incidental contact.

I think you've misread the play situation.  In Federation-speak A=K and B=R, so A88(K) illegally touches the kick (first touching in Federation) and then B99(R) picks up the still live kick and returns it to the 50.  While covering the return, the LJ runs into a Team B(R) coach in the white.

So under NCAA rules, Team B(R) has a choice of the illegal touching spot (they won't want that in this situation) or the result of the play (obvious choice), and then we will enforce 15 yds against Team B(R).  B 1/10 B-35, snap, 25.  This a Team UNS in NCAA, so no counter on the coach.

The NCAA rule is clear on how to handle this.  The Federation rule appears to be creating a lot of confusion because there's a common sense way to handle it, and then there's the actual technical language in their book.  It's sort of become a discussion of what the meaning of "is" is.  (For those of you old enough to remember the Clinton years.)

[Snapper]

In Nfhs the ball is dead when recovered by B99, so the situation should never occur. But, if it did, it's a no harm, no foul situation. A coach can be in the restricted area while the ball is dead, so at best it's incidental contact.

To add to my previous explanation, in NCAA if we run into a coach during the continuing action after a dead-ball, it's still a flag.  I don't know what the technical language of the Federation rule is, but I advise doing it the NCAA way.  Running into someone when you're not expecting it hurts, is dangerous, and if it happens in the white, deserves a flag.  Plus getting knocked around takes away our ability to properly officiate the play or the dead-ball action.

During free kick returns, we know enough to throttle down at the end of the play, protect ourselves from all of the players that are going to rush out to start a new series, and we get a good enough spot.  But any other time, running into someone usually takes us by surprise or we only have a fraction of a second to react.

[ElvisLives]

REVISION
Well, boys, it looks like I goofed, again. I failed to match the down description from the other rule set discussion. So, let's try this twist:

4/10, A-30, 5:00 (2), A=7, B=7.
A11's legal punt lands at the B-40 and bounces to the B-30 where A88 muffs an attempt to recover the ball. B99 then successfully recovers the ball while upright and advances to the 50, where he fumbles the ball, and A66 recovers the ball while 'grounded.' During B99's run, the Head Line Judge, back-pedal fading toward A's goal line in the restricted area, runs into a Team B coach.
Ruling:


(Yea! The format features and emojis are back! Great work, Grant.)

[dammitbobby]

B's ball 1/10 at the 15.  Even though the Team B foul occurred during the down, by rule (9-2-5-a) this is treated as a dead ball foul; it does not negate the illegal touching violation.  The succeeding spot is where A illegally touched the ball (at the B-30), and that is where the UNS is enforced from, moving it to the B-15.  No counter for the Team B coach as is is considered a Team UNS foul.

[ilyazhito]

Under NFHS, the rules do not specify that a foul has to be a live-ball foul to nullify illegal touching. Because of the accepted penalty on B, the illegal touching privilege is nullified. A then possesses the ball at the spot of the fumble recovery, and would get the penalty enforced from that spot. Under NFHS, it would be A ball 1/10 from the B-35

Under NCAA, sideline interference is enforced as a dead-ball foul. Since the rules explicitly specify that live-ball fouls cancel illegal touching, B gets the ball at the illegal touching spot, the B-30 and the GAM is enforced from there. 1/10 B from the B-15.

[ElvisLives]

Not so tough in NCAA. 

[CalhounLJ]

No, not under either code.  I think he misread the play situation.

Yeah,I got my A/K B/R mixed up. Sorry

[dammitbobby]

Yeah,I got my A/K B/R mixed up. Sorry

I bet someone boos you for that

[CalhounLJ]

I bet someone boos you for that

Lol, they probably already have…