Author Topic: Kicker Protection  (Read 6469 times)

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Offline JasonTX

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Kicker Protection
« on: October 31, 2023, 06:07:22 PM »
4th and 10 at the A-30.  A90 the apparent punter is lined up 8 yards behind the snapper with no player in position to receive a hand to hand snap.  The ball is snapped to A90 with him being 8 yards behind the snapper at the snap, and it is clear he is going to kick.  The ball is kicked out of bounds at the B-30.  After the kick was made, B20 makes forcible contact to the plant leg of A90 before he was able to regain his balance.  Ruling:

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2023, 06:47:31 PM »
Roughing the kicker. A 1/10 @ A-45. As you said “it is clear he is going to kick”. That is the only requirement for roughing or running into the kicker. A scrimmage kick formation is NOT necessary for the kicker to be protected. It IS required for the snapper to be protected or to use the numbering exception.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2023, 06:49:14 PM »
What Legacy said. So, what was the issue?

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2023, 07:03:35 PM »
In the definition of a scrimmage kick formation, it states that at least one player must be 10 or more yards behind the neutral zone.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2023, 07:23:32 PM »
In the definition of a scrimmage kick formation, it states that at least one player must be 10 or more yards behind the neutral zone.

A kicker’s location behind the NZ at the snap is not a criterion for running into/roughing the kicker. That only affects the legitimacy of a scrimmage kick formation, which then governs numbering exceptions, defensive players aligned within the frame of the snapper’s body, blocking of the snapper, and 3 on 1 blocking on team A linemen.
As long as it is obvious that he will make a kick, the kicker is protected.

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2023, 08:48:11 PM »
I’m not saying he doesn’t have protection.  Just saying there could be other issues by not being in a legal scrimmage kick formation. If they didn’t have 5 nunbered 50-79 would it not be an illegal formation?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2023, 09:36:19 PM »
What Legacy said. So, what was the issue?

No issue with me.  Just trying to show someone else that protection still exists.  Was hoping to find a play bulletin as well if one exists.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2023, 06:44:41 AM »
I’m not saying he doesn’t have protection.  Just saying there could be other issues by not being in a legal scrimmage kick formation. If they didn’t have 5 nunbered 50-79 would it not be an illegal formation?

It would be an illegal formation at the snap. The snapper would not have the special protections afforded him with a SKF.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2023, 10:10:45 PM »
A team our chapter covers had something similar happen earlier this year.  Lining up for a try or field goal, B cannot be over the center.  The holder (or kicker, can't remember which, or if it matters) then repositions to being a couple of yards behind the center, and when the ball is snapped, he simply rushes right up the (exposed) middle.  They got caught a few times with numbering exception infractions, until they started leaving all their regular linemen in.

Offline Phantomref

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2023, 01:21:19 PM »
During try and FG isn't the kicker and holder less than 10 yds behind the LOS? They are afforded protection.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Kicker Protection
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2023, 02:57:30 PM »
During try and FG isn't the kicker and holder less than 10 yds behind the LOS? They are afforded protection.

A field goal attempt is a field goal attempt, whether during regular scrimmage or a try. The only difference is that FG from regular scrimmage has a point value of 3. On a try, it has a point value of 1.
For the purpose of Running into the Kicker (or Holder, if a field goal attempt), or Roughing the Kicker (or Holder, if a field goal attempt), there is no difference between a punt and a field goal attempt. Both are scrimmage kicks. As long as it is obvious a scrimmage kick - either a punt or a field goal attempt - will be made, the rules regarding running into/roughing a kicker/holder apply.
 
Now, being OBVIOUS a scrimmage kick will be made is a little bit subjective. 2/5, B-30, 10:00 (2) is not obvious that this is a situation that a scrimmage kick WILL be attempted, even if Team A sends out their punter or place kicker/holder, and they take routine punt or field goal positions. 4/10, B-20, 1:30 (4), A=9, B=10 is very obvious a scrimmage kick will be attempted. So, it is possible, as in the first scenario, that a Team A player might legally kick the ball, but he won't have protection, if it wasn't obvious at the snap that a scrimmage kick would be attempted.
Example: 4/10, B-40, 2:20 (4), A=14, B=21. At the snap, A11 is directly behind the snapper at the B-47. It is not truly clear if Team A will attempt a punt, or may attempt to advance the ball by run or pass, to get a first down. A11 receives the backward pass snap from A55, and, while holding the ball, looks downfield momentarily, then takes three steps forward and punts the ball. Just after the ball flies off of A11's foot, B55 blocks A11 in the chest, knocking A11 to the ground. Ruling: It was not obvious a scrimmage kick would be made. Running Into and Roughing the Kicker fouls are not possible. However, A11 is protected from targeting fouls, late hits, and striking fouls. If the contact would have been an otherwise legal block, there is no foul in this example.

None of that has anything to do with a Scrimmage Kick Formation. A scrimmage kick formation is carefully defined in Rule 2, and has to do with Team A's requirement to comply with mandatory numbering of linemen, i.e., they must have five (5) linemen numbered 50-79, UNLESS they are in a bona-fide scrimmage kick formation (which includes the factors of down/distance/time remaining). If they are in a SKF, then all of their linemen may have ANY legal number (0-99). However, all interior linemen at the moment the SKF is first established are restricted from being in the backfield or on the end of the line at the snap, regardless of their jersey number. All such interior linemen are also restricted in placing their hand(s) on/near the ground. Once their hand(s) are on/near the ground they may not lift that/those hand(s) from the ground.
But, none of that has anything to do with Running Into or Roughing the Kicker. They very frequently occur on the same down. But, otherwise, they are unrelated.