Airborne runner near goal line - change for 2011 CONFIRMED

[justaLJ]

With all of the info coming out, I may have lost this in the shuffle, but I thought I read something on the boards recently about a change from last year (voluntary vs. involuntary) to this year where regardless of how a runner goes airborne, the goal line will not be extended, i.e. the ball must hit or be inside the pylon for it to be a TD.

Can't find anything in RR's notes, so maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

[El Macman]

I have heard nothing like that. But, we are always surprised when we get the new book. Wait and see.
2009 Bulletin 2, plays 10 & 11 distinguish between a ball carrier 'off the ground by defensive contact,' versus a ball carrier voluntarliy 'airborne,' both of whom extend the ball outside a goal line pylon, with the ball breaking the plane of the goal line extended. TD for the BC off the ground by defensive contact; no TD - ball dead where it crossed the sideline - for airborne BC.
I would expect to see these rulings in the 2011 ARs, either intact, or modified (if there is to be a modification).

[ref6983]

With all of the info coming out, I may have lost this in the shuffle, but I thought I read something on the boards recently about a change from last year (voluntary vs. involuntary) to this year where regardless of how a runner goes airborne, the goal line will not be extended, i.e. the ball must hit or be inside the pylon for it to be a TD.

Can't find anything in RR's notes, so maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

This is definitely true based on what I've heard came out of the winter meeting. The play can now be officiated the same way whether there is contact or not by the defense. And if the runner is a airborne some part of the ball must pass inside the pylon for it to be a touchdown.

[foureyedzebra]

This is definitely true based on what I've heard came out of the winter meeting. The play can now be officiated the same way whether there is contact or not by the defense. And if the runner is a airborne some part of the ball must pass inside the pylon for it to be a touchdown.

This is the answer that I got from RR in October. I have heard nothing different since then, but maybe things have changed.

A22 has the ball at the B-2 when he voluntarily goes airborne and the ball in player possession breaks the plane of the sideline at the B-1. Before contacting anything else, the ball still in player possession touches the right side of the pylon (the side away from the middle of the field).

RR: Touchdown. The pylon is in the end zone out of bounds, so the player has not gone out of bounds before going into the end zone.

[ref6983]

This is the answer that I got from RR in October. I have heard nothing different since then, but maybe things have changed.

A22 has the ball at the B-2 when he voluntarily goes airborne and the ball in player possession breaks the plane of the sideline at the B-1. Before contacting anything else, the ball still in player possession touches the right side of the pylon (the side away from the middle of the field).

RR: Touchdown. The pylon is in the end zone out of bounds, so the player has not gone out of bounds before going into the end zone.

My hunch is that this will still be true...if the ball hits the pylon it is a touchdown, since there really would be nothing else you can do with the play. The reason is that when the runner goes airborne the ball will be spotted where it crosses the sideline. In this case the ball hits the pylon so it didn't cross the sideline in the field of play.

Taking this a step further, if the ball passes directly over the pylon we will probably make that a touchdown as well. Not sure how you could ever humanly, or with replay rule otherwise. (Could anyone really tell in this case whether a fraction of the ball did or did not pass a fraction of an inch inside the pylon?)

It does remain to be seen what the exact wording Rogers will use on this.

Bottom line, if the ball crosses the sideline in the field of play, no touchdown.

Just one more note: I think you can treat this exactly like a loose ball crossing the sideline...crosses the sideline over or inside the pylon: it's in the end zone. Crosses on the field of play side of the pylon: out of bounds in the field of play.

[chymechowder]

With all of the info coming out, I may have lost this in the shuffle, but I thought I read something on the boards recently about a change from last year (voluntary vs. involuntary) to this year where regardless of how a runner goes airborne, the goal line will not be extended, i.e. the ball must hit or be inside the pylon for it to be a TD.

Can't find anything in RR's notes, so maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

agree with you on the wishful thinking.  I've never liked that a runner who gets drilled OOB at the 2 yardline should get credit for landing beyond the goal line extended

[justaLJ]

It's seems my wishful thinking was well placed -- defensive coordinators rejoice!


AIRBORNE BALL CARRIER: EXTENDING THE GOAL-LINE PLANE
For a number of years we have made a distinction between a ball carrier who goes airborne voluntarily—e.g., he intentionally dives for the pylon—and one who is in the air because of contact by an opponent. Effective in 2011, there is no distinction between the ball carrier who dives on his own and the one who goes into the air on contact by an opponent. They are both airborne players. In addition, the concept of the goal-line plane is altered slightly, but significantly. For a ball carrier to score a touchdown, we know that the ball in his possession must break the plane of the goal line. But the interpretation of the plane of the goal line now is this: The goal-line plane runs between the pylons and includes the entire pylon. This plane does not extend beyond the pylons except in two specific cases: when a ball carrier touches the pylon, and when a ball carrier touches the ground in the end zone. In the new 2011-12 rule book you will find this change in two places: Rule 2-12-2 (definition of goal line) and in Rule 8-2-1-a (how a touchdown is scored).
Previously we extended the goal-line plane if a ball carrier went into the air because of contact by an opponent, and we did not extend it if he dived on his own. But now it doesn’t matter how he got into the air. What does matter is whether he touches either the pylon or the ground in the end zone. If he doesn‘t do either of these, the plane is not extended—no matter how he got into the air.
PLAY SITUATIONS
1. Ball carrier A22 dives for the goal line at the B-1. The ball in his possession (a) touches the pylon; (b) goes over the top of the pylon; (c) crosses the goal line inside the pylon. A22 then first contacts the ground out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. RULING: (a), (b) and (c) Touchdown in all three. The ball in A22’s possession has broken the plane of the goal line in all three scenarios.
In Play 1 it is important to remember that the pylon is in the end zone out of bounds and the plane of the goal line includes the pylon, so these three situations satisfy the definition of a touchdown.
2. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. At the B-2 he dives or is blocked into the air by an opponent. The ball in A22’s right hand crosses the sideline
at the B-1 and passes outside the pylon, and then A22 (a) touches the pylon with his foot or left hand; (b) first touches the ground out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. RULING: (a) Touchdown. The goal-line plane is extended since A22 touches the pylon. (b) Not a touchdown. The goal-line plane is not extended because A22 did not touch either the pylon or the ground in the end zone. The ball is ruled out of bounds at the B-1.
In previous years A22 in (b) would have scored a touchdown if he had been blocked into the air but not if he had dived on his own. Now there is no distinction between the two.
3. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. The ball in his right hand crosses the extension of the goal line outside (i.e., to the right of) the pylon, and then A22 steps (a) on the goal line; (b) on the sideline inches short of the goal line. RULING: (a) Touchdown. The goal-line plane is extended because A22 touches the ground in the end zone. (b) Not a touchdown. The goal-line plane is not extended. The ball is ruled out of bounds at the crossing point.
4. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. The ball is in his right hand. His foot hits the pylon just before the ball crosses (a) the pylon or (b) the extension of the goal line just to the right (outside) of the pylon. RULING: (a) and (b) No touchdown in either case. Because the pylon is out of bounds the ball is dead when A22’s foot hits it. Thus in both cases the ball is dead before it crosses the goal line.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: How do you think this one will be ruled? Runner A1 is tight-roping the right sideline at B's 10 with his right arm and the ball extended beyond the sideline. Feeling defensive pressure from the middle of the field, he dives for the endzone at B's 1.5. He is hit so that he passes over (doesn't touch) the pylon and lands OOB beyond B's goal line. Where is the succeeding spot?

[TXMike]

It's seems my wishful thinking was well placed -- defensive coordinators rejoice!

They will not be rejoicing for long.  As soon as they read the part (sorry, DC's can't read    ), as soon as they hear about the part that says a QB can throw the ball away as long as a receiver is in the area, even if he has no chance to catch the ball, they will be hollering again.

[xkath]

REPLY: How do you think this one will be ruled? Runner A1 is tight-roping the right sideline at B's 10 with his right arm and the ball extended beyond the sideline. Feeling defensive pressure from the middle of the field, he dives for the endzone at B's 1.5. He is hit so that he passes over (doesn't touch) the pylon and lands OOB beyond B's goal line. Where is the succeeding spot?

The try at the B-3.

Ball in airborne runner's possession that breaks the GL plane between the pylons and INCLUDING the pylons is a TD. The plane is extended beyond the pylons only when the airborne runner first lands in the end zone or touches the pylon.

[jg-me]

Ah, Bob M. you devil. As is sometimes said, the devil is in the details and in your scenario it is the detail you left out (I presume).

[Archie]

I work games on very windy fields where the cheap pylons never stand up straight and mostly are blown over or out of position.  How am I supposed to make a ruling?

[James]

Pylons falling over: First chance I get I kick them far off the field.

It was a test question for us last year however.
The pylon is blown into the field and lying at about the 2 yards line, 5 yards inbounds of the sideline when the ball carrier gets knocked off ballance and lands on it on his knee and slides on it into the EZ. What is the result of the play.
Taken literally the the pylon is OOB and the ball carrier is OOB when he touches it. Our supervisor declared that it is only true when the pylon is in it's designated position.
Then there is the case of did something other that foot or hand of the ball carrier touch the ground...
Test questions and real life answers don't always match up.

[foureyedzebra]

It's seems my wishful thinking was well placed -- defensive coordinators rejoice!


AIRBORNE BALL CARRIER: EXTENDING THE GOAL-LINE PLANE
For a number of years we have made a distinction between a ball carrier who goes airborne voluntarily—e.g., he intentionally dives for the pylon—and one who is in the air because of contact by an opponent. Effective in 2011, there is no distinction between the ball carrier who dives on his own and the one who goes into the air on contact by an opponent. They are both airborne players. In addition, the concept of the goal-line plane is altered slightly, but significantly. For a ball carrier to score a touchdown, we know that the ball in his possession must break the plane of the goal line. But the interpretation of the plane of the goal line now is this: The goal-line plane runs between the pylons and includes the entire pylon. This plane does not extend beyond the pylons except in two specific cases: when a ball carrier touches the pylon, and when a ball carrier touches the ground in the end zone. In the new 2011-12 rule book you will find this change in two places: Rule 2-12-2 (definition of goal line) and in Rule 8-2-1-a (how a touchdown is scored).
Previously we extended the goal-line plane if a ball carrier went into the air because of contact by an opponent, and we did not extend it if he dived on his own. But now it doesn’t matter how he got into the air. What does matter is whether he touches either the pylon or the ground in the end zone. If he doesn‘t do either of these, the plane is not extended—no matter how he got into the air.
PLAY SITUATIONS
1. Ball carrier A22 dives for the goal line at the B-1. The ball in his possession (a) touches the pylon; (b) goes over the top of the pylon; (c) crosses the goal line inside the pylon. A22 then first contacts the ground out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. RULING: (a), (b) and (c) Touchdown in all three. The ball in A22’s possession has broken the plane of the goal line in all three scenarios.
In Play 1 it is important to remember that the pylon is in the end zone out of bounds and the plane of the goal line includes the pylon, so these three situations satisfy the definition of a touchdown.
2. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. At the B-2 he dives or is blocked into the air by an opponent. The ball in A22’s right hand crosses the sideline
at the B-1 and passes outside the pylon, and then A22 (a) touches the pylon with his foot or left hand; (b) first touches the ground out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. RULING: (a) Touchdown. The goal-line plane is extended since A22 touches the pylon. (b) Not a touchdown. The goal-line plane is not extended because A22 did not touch either the pylon or the ground in the end zone. The ball is ruled out of bounds at the B-1.
In previous years A22 in (b) would have scored a touchdown if he had been blocked into the air but not if he had dived on his own. Now there is no distinction between the two.
3. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. The ball in his right hand crosses the extension of the goal line outside (i.e., to the right of) the pylon, and then A22 steps (a) on the goal line; (b) on the sideline inches short of the goal line. RULING: (a) Touchdown. The goal-line plane is extended because A22 touches the ground in the end zone. (b) Not a touchdown. The goal-line plane is not extended. The ball is ruled out of bounds at the crossing point.
4. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. The ball is in his right hand. His foot hits the pylon just before the ball crosses (a) the pylon or (b) the extension of the goal line just to the right (outside) of the pylon. RULING: (a) and (b) No touchdown in either case. Because the pylon is out of bounds the ball is dead when A22’s foot hits it. Thus in both cases the ball is dead before it crosses the goal line.

Where did this confirmation originate?

[justaLJ]

Straight from the source --

http://cfo.arbitersports.com/front/104777/Site

[Bob M.]

The try at the B-3.

Ball in airborne runner's possession that breaks the GL plane between the pylons and INCLUDING the pylons is a TD. The plane is extended beyond the pylons only when the airborne runner first lands in the end zone or touches the pylon.

REPLY: xkath, what I meant to portray (and maybe not too well) is that the ball was outside the sideline the whole time and did not penetrate the goal line between the pylons either before or after the runner's dive for the corner. The ball was outside the sideline from the time when the runner reached the ten-yard line, he dove from the 1.5 never touched the ground inbounds, nor did he touch the pylon. He landed OOB beyond the goal line. Clearly not a TD, but where do we mark the ball. It crossed the sideline at B's 10

[jg-me]

Bob, since noone seems to want to address your scenario, I'll give it a shot. Although the ball is outside the sideline from the 10 yard-line in, the forward progress point really is not at issue until the ball carrier becomes airborne. I would spot the ball at the OOB point based on the point at which the carrier became airborne (presumably the 1.5 yard-line). Whlie not specifically addressed, it appears the intent of 4-2-4-e would support this ruling. Thoughts?

[Hursk]

I'd agree with Jeff.  Essentially treat it as if the ball crossed the sideline at the point where he leaves his feet...

[Bob M.]

Bob, since noone seems to want to address your scenario, I'll give it a shot. Although the ball is outside the sideline from the 10 yard-line in, the forward progress point really is not at issue until the ball carrier becomes airborne. I would spot the ball at the OOB point based on the point at which the carrier became airborne (presumably the 1.5 yard-line). Whlie not specifically addressed, it appears the intent of 4-2-4-e would support this ruling. Thoughts?

REPLY: Makes pretty good sense, but wasn't implicit in the way the rule is constructed. Now, the NCAA rule mirrors the Fed rule. The goal line is extended only for a runner who is touching the ground inbounds.

[xkath]

REPLY: Makes pretty good sense, but wasn't implicit in the way the rule is constructed. Now, the NCAA rule mirrors the Fed rule. The goal line is extended only for a runner who is touching the ground inbounds.

Read it carefully. The NCAA extends the goal line to an airborne player with the ball if subsequently his first contact is inbounds in the end zone.

[El Macman]

Another tough scenario is when the BC has the ball in his outside arm, he is well within an arms length of the goal line, but is held up just short, won't be able to push forward across the goal line, so he throws his arm out with the ball in it, and the ball passes above what would be the goal line extended, but outside the pylon. By this re-interpretation - no score (since he was inbounds int the end zone). Or was it? Did the ball get over the pylon? Will replay be able to help?

Good luck to all Hs, Ls, Fs and Ss.

[Andrew McCarthy]

Another tough scenario is when the BC has the ball in his outside arm, he is well within an arms length of the goal line, but is held up just short, won't be able to push forward across the goal line, so he throws his arm out with the ball in it, and the ball passes above what would be the goal line extended, but outside the pylon. By this re-interpretation - no score (since he was inbounds int the end zone). Or was it? Did the ball get over the pylon? Will replay be able to help?

Good luck to all Hs, Ls, Fs and Ss.

Doesn't the change outlined above apply only to airborne ballcarriers?  The heading implies as much.

[El Macman]

Doesn't the change outlined above apply only to airborne ballcarriers?  The heading implies as much.
[/quote

No. Check play No. 3 and Play No. 4 in the bulletin.

[Bob M.]

Read it carefully. The NCAA extends the goal line to an airborne player with the ball if subsequently his first contact is inbounds in the end zone.

REPLY: Correct. Which is the same as Fed.