invalid signal

[jafogie]

It is my understanding, and has been for the past 40 years, any waving signal by any "R" player during a scrimmage kick causes the ball to become dead upon possession by "R".  Some of the officials in my area don"t agree with that statement and say if the signal is below the shoulders to let it go.  No where in the rule book does it indicate there is a difference between a signal above the shoulders and a signal below.

Let me add a couple of comments:  I am not referring to a valid signal as we all know the definition of a valid fair catch signal.  The rule is very clear, in my opinion, that any signal, valid or invalid , causes the ball to be come dead upon possession.  No where do the rules leave it up to the judgement of the official to determine the "keep away signal" is different or should not be defined as an invalid signal. The only exception I am aware of is if the "R" player is trying to shield his eyes from the sun.

[Atlanta Blue]

Sure it does:

2-9-3: A valid fair-catch signal is the extending and lateral waving of one
arm, at full arm’s length above the head, by any R player.

[FBUmp]

It is my understanding, and has been for the past 40 years, any waving signal by any "R" player during a scrimmage kick causes the ball to become dead upon possession by "R". 

You are correct on that part.

6-5-5
No receiver may advance the ball after a valid or invalid fair-catch signal has been given by any R player.

Some of the officials in my area don"t agree with that statement and say if the signal is below the shoulders to let it go.  No where in the rule book does it indicate there is a difference between a signal above the shoulders and a siganl below.

A signal below the shoulders would be an invalid signal in my opinion.

[Atlanta Blue]

So if an R player is waving his teammates to get away from the ball, you're calling that an invalid fair catch signal?

[zebraken]

only if you interpret it as such...thats where your judgement comes in

[mbyron]

I suspect that the OP did not mean to claim that there's no difference between a valid and invalid FC signal. I suspect he meant to suggest that the outcome of both is the same: dead ball once R gains possession.

[FBUmp]

So if an R player is waving his teammates to get away from the ball, you're calling that an invalid fair catch signal?

I indicated that I would rule a fair catch signal that was not above the shoulders an invalid fair catch signal.  Waving your arms to indicate to stay away from the ball is not a valid, invalid, or illegal fair catch signal.

[Wingman]

So if an R player is waving his teammates to get away from the ball, you're calling that an invalid fair catch signal?

Exactly what I would do if this were an NCAA game..  That change was made a few years ago..
However, in a NFHS game, I don't think it would meet the criteria for a foul depending on just how said signaling  looked to me.

[Curious]

All good answers....a lot of smart people out there.

My question is one of philosophy: unless you determine (by his subsequent action) that the "signalling" R player was trying to deceive his opponents, why would we penalize for an shaky or questionable signal?  If everybody stops, do we really need to interject ourselves in this play?

If he uses the signal, then grabs the ball and runs, we still have a remedy.

Maybe we talk to the kid; but penalize.....?

[FBUmp]

I don't see that enforcing this rule is interjecting ourselves. 

At the beginning of the game, our wings tell the end on their side that their front feet is the LOS.  If he lands up in the backfield when he should be on the LOS as the 7th man, we flag it.

No different with a punt.  Prior to the kick, the BJ tells him, "Give me a good fair catch signal."  Why?  Because K deserves a valid fair catch signal so they have an opportunity to pull up and not nail the receiver.  So yes, we would flag an invalid signal.

[TampaSteve]

So if an R player is waving his teammates to get away from the ball, you're calling that an invalid fair catch signal?

Technically, it is an invalid signal. (2-9-4a). 
It's the chic thing these days in NFL/NCAA for deep man to give the 'incomplete signal' & obviously kids emulate what they see on TV.
Do we call it as invalid fair catch? - not round these parts, unless if R decides to subequently pick it up & run with it.