Vandy / Tenn OT IW

[Rulesman]

One thing we may see from all this is even fewer whistles or dead ball signals.  More guys may be more likely to let things go, knowing they can be bailed out by IR.

...which is what you you'd have thought they would have done here. But they didn't and we still don't know the rest of the story.

[Rulesman]

On 99.99% of the IW's, you can't ignore it.  But in this situation it appears only 2 people even acted like there had been a whistle, the H and the S.

You still had one.

[GPC2]

They were immaterial because, take them out and what do you have?  TD by Tenn and game over.  The "fact" is they WERE there, and what was the result of the play?  TD by Tenn and game over.    I thought our mantra was "get it right"?  The "right" thing here was TD by Tenn and game over.

I am not saying there were not some side issues this crew and conference need to address internally but they had no impact on game outcome.

I would certainly agree with you that the "right" outcome likely was TD Tennessee, but I would certainly argue that we can't ignore the rulebook just to "make it right". And how can you be sure that NONE of the Vandy players stopped playing (or even slowed down a bit) based on the TV video? There is no way of truly knowing that. At the end of the day, getting it right is a lot different than making it right.

[JugglingReferee]

This whole mess started with bad mechanics by the H.  I will assume that NCAA keys have him taking the 2nd receiver.

At the snap, he moves immediately downfield.  However, this places you out of position when players need to "come back to the ball".  At the time of the INT, he was actually closer to the B GL and than the players were.  As such, he was not in position to see a bobble that may have taken place, and he was straight-lined in respect to the player's knees.

If he read the play better, he would have held the LS, or at least vacate the LS at a slow rate.  Then, he would have seen the action from between the LS and the INT, and he would have properly seen that no knee touched the ground.

[InsideTheStripes]

There is simply no excuse for allowing the R to make a fool of himself by announcing that there was no whistle or signal on the field.  The cowardice on display at the end of that game is simply inexcusable.  If it were up to me, I'd wish that H well in his future endeavors.

[TXMike]

1 - Do we know yet that the whistle was blown by the H and not by someone else (or even by someone in the stands)?
2 -The only signal I have seen from the H in these videos is the begining movement of his right arm.  We never see if he puts it up as in dead ball or waves as in stop the clock.

[InsideTheStripes]

1 - Do we know yet that the whistle was blown by the H and not by someone else (or even by someone in the stands)?

At 3:51 in the long video, you can see him running in to mark the spot with a finger whistle in his mouth (left hand) as a whistle sounds.  I guess it is much more likely that a fan in the stands would mimic an official by blowing a whistle in 3-4 short bursts while the H just happens to be in the middle of squaring off a spot and starting to signal the ball dead with his right arm (4:22).

 

The S doesn't have a whistle in his mouth (1:45, 3:51).  I'm betting the R would have known if he had blown the whistle and not made an announcement that would end up making himself look like a fool.  Plus at 1:35, you can see the R is still looking the other direction at the passer.  The U doesn't raise his hands (0:15-0:17) and I can't imagine he's officiating a play with the whistle in his mouth.  If anyone else on the field blew a whistle, this crew has bigger problems.

2 -The only signal I have seen from the H in these videos is the begining movement of his right arm.  We never see if he puts it up as in dead ball or waves as in stop the clock.

I guess we could pretend that he was going to stop raising his right arm and scratch his ear or something, but I think we all know that's not what happened.

[Rulesman]

I also noted at the time Curles came back on for the second announcement that the play was under review, in addition to being winded from the 70 yard sprint, he really looked PO'd. Can't say I blame him.

[JugglingReferee]

Harsh words from Pereira.


http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/48852538/pereira-week-12-cfb-call.htm#q=mike+pereira

[GPC2]

Harsh words from Pereira.


http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/48852538/pereira-week-12-cfb-call.htm#q=mike+pereira

Wow - that's about as harsh as you can be while maintaining tact and diplomacy (which he obviously has to do when speaking to a worldwide audience comprised of both officials and the general public). It sucks that this whole situation happened, but hopefully it'll reinforce to the rest of the officiating world the importance of integrity and honesty and courageousness that we must exhibit every time we step onto the football field. These characteristics must be exemplified whether we are officiating a 6th grade game with no cameras present, to a high school game with maybe one or two cameras present for part of the game, to an FCS game where every play is recorded for coach's tape all the way up to the mighty SEC where the game is being broadcast *live* in HD with multiple cameras.

[clearwall]

"...that was not the truth."

There's the damning comment right there. The official didnt even just blow an IW, it tweeted at least twice that I heard, and he had the whistle in one hand, waving the other. Yeah, no question this crew's credibility is shot because of this.

[Curious]

WOW!!!

What a tough group...

Haven't seen the play; don't even care to.  Just would like to know, with all the technology available, WHY THERE IS NO AUDIO IN THE REPLAY BOOTH?  Simply makes no sense...

As an aside, does the IR in the NFL have audio? 

[Mike L]

1 - Do we know yet that the whistle was blown by the H and not by someone else (or even by someone in the stands)?
2 -The only signal I have seen from the H in these videos is the begining movement of his right arm.  We never see if he puts it up as in dead ball or waves as in stop the clock.

Yeah, 'cause nothing says the ball is still live like an official with goal-line responsibility coming into the field with his right hand up and his left hand at his mouth at the spot where the defender "nearly" touched a knee down rather than bothering to cover the play as it moves 70+ yds up field for a score.
I completely agree that Tenn would've scored on the play, unfortunately I don't see anything in tthe inadvertant whistle rule that allows for the officials to decide what is "equitable".

[InsideTheStripes]

Haven't seen the play; don't even care to.  Just would like to know, with all the technology available, WHY THERE IS NO AUDIO IN THE REPLAY BOOTH?  Simply makes no sense...

As an aside, does the IR in the NFL have audio?

I can't speak to whether or not there is audio in an NFL replay booth, but I do know that an inadvertent whistle is not a reviewable play.  Section 9 note:

Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:

1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration
4. Runner ruled down by defensive contact (not involving fumbles)
5. Forward progress not relating to first down or goal line
6. Recovery of a loose ball that does not involve a boundary line or the end zone.
7. Field-goal or Try attempts that cross above either upright without touching anything.
8. Inadvertent Whistle

[Osric Pureheart]

I have a question.  Surely you need audio to properly review the situation in which there is a fumble, the covering official blows it dead, the ball is recovered shortly afterwards, and there is a question about whether the whistle affected the continuing action?

[Rulesman]

It doesn't matter if an IW "affects the continuing action." An IW is an IW, and there are specific rules governing how they are handled.

[Andrew McCarthy]

I have a question.  Surely you need audio to properly review the situation in which there is a fumble, the covering official blows it dead, the ball is recovered shortly afterwards, and there is a question about whether the whistle affected the continuing action?

The rules state the replay must show "the clear recovery of a loose ball occurs in the immediate continuing action".  This takes the whistle out of the equation. 

[zebra99]

It doesn't matter if an IW "affects the continuing action." An IW is an IW, and there are specific rules governing how they are handled.

I think it might be a bit more complicated.  Every IR reversal of runner down into a fumble is technically an IW, isn't it?  But IR rules allow us to give it to the defense via clear recovery instead of a strict application of the IW rules.  So I'm not sure about your post as written, unless I'm missing something.

[Rulesman]

I think it might be a bit more complicated.  Every IR reversal of runner down into a fumble is technically an IW, isn't it?  But IR rules allow us to give it to the defense via clear recovery instead of a strict application of the IW rules.  So I'm not sure about your post as written, unless I'm missing something.

Agree, 99. I was responding to the statement/question: "Surely you need audio to properly review the situation in which there is a fumble, the covering official blows it dead, the ball is recovered shortly afterwards, and there is a question about whether the whistle affected the continuing action?" I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of considering not every NCAA game has the luxury of IR.

[Sonofanump]

Unless I am completely misunderstanding the IW rules for immediate recovery (or interception in this case), if a ball is recovered by the opposing team immediately after an IW or IS (signal), the ball belongs to the recovering team, but (which is the most applicable part applying to this play) no advancement is granted after the change of possession.  Play is dead, possession is awarded at the spot of the recovery.

[clearwall]

Do you have a rule reference for that?

Edit...sorry, misread what you said. You're right the correct ruling should have been Tenn ball at the spot of the interception. Since they were the team in posession when the whistle sounded, they retain posession.

[Andrew McCarthy]

Unless I am completely misunderstanding the IW rules for immediate recovery (or interception in this case), if a ball is recovered by the opposing team immediately after an IW or IS (signal), the ball belongs to the recovering team, but (which is the most applicable part applying to this play) no advancement is granted after the change of possession.  Play is dead, possession is awarded at the spot of the recovery.

I think you're combining rules for IW and instant replay.  If you're working a game with no replay and you have an IW during a loose ball, you do not have the option of awarding it to an opponent that immediately recovers.  There is no "immediate recovery" provision related to IWs.

[NoVaBJ]

Compare the crew of the November 19 Vanderbilt-UT game:

Referee: Marc Curles • Umpire: Brent Sowell • Linesman: GA Gus Morris [sic] • Line judge: Michael Shirley • Back judge: Rich Martinez • Field judge: Mike Washington • Side judge: Bobby Moreau

with the crew of the November 26 Ole Miss-Mississippi State game:

Referee: Marc Curles • Umpire: Brent Sowell • Linesman: Randall Kizer • Line judge: Jim Kelley • Back judge: Rich Martinez • Field judge: Mike Washington • Side judge: Rob Skelton

[zebra99]

Compare the crew of the November 19 Vanderbilt-UT game:

with the crew of the November 26 Ole Miss-Mississippi State game:

and your point?

[TxSkyBolt]

and your point?

Different H, L and S on the 26th. We're they docked a game?


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