Texas vs A&M

[mccormicw]

1st down after a penalty at the A (UT) 1ft line in the 4th quarter with just over 10 minutes to go.  I know it isnt a perfect angle, but it sure looks like A&M is line up clearly offsides.  Any thoughts?

[psv]

What about the personal foul on the last drive?  Any thoughts on that?

[JasonTX]

Any thoughts on the personal foul on the interception returned for a TD by Texas.  Why was it declined?  It should have carried over to the Try or Kickoff at the option of UT.

[APG]

Any thoughts on the personal foul on the interception returned for a TD by Texas.  Why was it declined?  It should have carried over to the Try or Kickoff at the option of UT.

I think they did end up enforcing the penalty and have Texas kick off from the 45 as the kick off was booted out of the end zone.

[JasonTX]

I think they did end up enforcing the penalty and have Texas kick off from the 45 as the kick off was booted out of the end zone.

OK.  I didn't watch the kickoff so they must have made the correction without announcing it.

[mishatx]

What about the personal foul on the last drive?  Any thoughts on that?

It's there.  You could make arguments that it might be too technical, but there is crown-to-side-of-head contact long after the pass is clearly incomplete.  The defender is letting up, but he can avoid the issue entirely if he doesn't make contact or makes contact differently.

[APG]

OK.  I didn't watch the kickoff so they must have made the correction without announcing it.

Correct, they did enforce the penalty on the kickoff without announcing it.

[psv]

It's there.  You could make arguments that it might be too technical, but there is crown-to-side-of-head contact long after the pass is clearly incomplete.  The defender is letting up, but he can avoid the issue entirely if he doesn't make contact or makes contact differently.

well, i am an aggie, but man is that a ticky tack call for the 4th quarter in a close game.  Maybe it would be easier to swallow if he actually, you know, knocked him over or something, as opposed to just graze by.

[CenTexTM]

I thought at the time and looking at that gif seems to support that he could have easily avoided contact altogether and at the very least avoid contact with the crown of his helmet.  It almost looks like he deliberately raised his head to pop the receiver near the end.  I'm neither Aggie nor Longhorn, and I can see where if your team is in A&M's position you'd want the officials to keep their flags in their pocket for anything short of actual murder, but I don't think there's anything in the rule about the recipient having to get knocked to the ground and when in doubt on a safety foul it would seem like this should be called.

[NVFOA_Ump]

So let's see:

1. The A player by definition is a defenseless player
2. The pass is clearly INC
3. The B defender clearly has time to avoid contact
4. The B player intentionally uses the crown of his helmet to deliver a blow to the head

What is there to discuss?

[bama_stripes]

Slightly off-topic, but did anyone else see TAMU's left tackle in an illegal formation ALL NIGHT?

[Rulesman]

These days, many tackles have a hard time knowing where the LOS is located. If we would start calling it, they would stop doing it. But I know I'm beating a 

As for the PFs... this game was full of them and  were warranted. The crew, IMO, did an admirable job keeping control of a game that could have easily gotten out of hand. Got to give them one of these: 

[TXMike]

Found this video of the PF on last drive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUx7t-VOKEs

[mbyron]

So let's see:

1. The A player by definition is a defenseless player
2. The pass is clearly INC
3. The B defender clearly has time to avoid contact
4. The B player intentionally uses the crown of his helmet to deliver a blow to the head

What is there to discuss?

You forgot the part that it was the Aggies! 

[Joe Stack]

You have to err on the side of not making this call. You have to make this big or non-existent. The offensive player was hardly affected, and the contact to the head was totally incidental. The defender is letting up and one could argue that he probably couldn't have avoided contact. Maybe not all the contact that happened, but we don't throw a flag for all cases of a little excessive contact.

The defensive collapse is the Aggies own fault. But I think the flag should have stayed in his pocket on this one.

[NVFOA_Ump]

You have to err on the side of not making this call. You have to make this big or non-existent. .....

In fact, Rule 9-1-3 say exactly the opposite.  This is one of the few rules where the book explicitly states ".... when in question, it is a foul".

The defender had far more than enough time to get his helmet out of the play, and even avoid contact if he wanted to - IMO this is a foul every time.  There's absolutely no "make it big" with this type of helmet hit according to the very clear rules.

[Hank]

So let's see:

1. The A player by definition is a defenseless player
2. The pass is clearly INC
3. The B defender clearly has time to avoid contact
4. The B player intentionally uses the crown of his helmet to deliver a blow to the head

What is there to discuss?

Well, your premise.

1. & 2. No argument.
3. Watch it in REAL time and think about how fast the player is moving and how much ground he covers.  We're talking about less than .4 seconds.  Maybe less than .3 seconds.  If a human's reaction time is .25 seconds, this gives this fellow very little time to avoid the contact.
4. Does the player intentionally hit him with his helmet or is he trying to avoid contact.  With this little time to react it's hard to say either way.

[NVFOA_Ump]

4. Does the player intentionally hit him with his helmet or is he trying to avoid contact.  With this little time to react it's hard to say either way.

Even if you can't be certain that " .... the player intentionally hit him with his helmet or is he trying to avoid contact."  it really doesn't matter, rule 9-1-3 is clear that this requires a flag.

[940AC]

No doubt about it, that PF call was a game changer.

[psv]

No doubt about it, that PF call was a game changer.

yes it was.  It might not have changed the outcome of the game, but the extra 15 yards didnt hurt.

I disagree with NVFOA_UMP as well.  If everytime there was contact a split second after a play, we would have flags after every single play.  It wasnt obvious watching it live that their helmets even TOUCHED.  When you slow it down, it is a grazing motion at best.  It was nitpicky.  Let me draw an analogy, basically, they gave the kid a $10,000 fine for going driving 31mph in a 30mph zone.  That is what it was.  It wasnt a call that needed to be made.

 

[Zebra27]

well, i am an aggie, but man is that a ticky tack call for the 4th quarter in a close game.  Maybe it would be easier to swallow if he actually, you know, knocked him over or something, as opposed to just graze by.

well, since it's a close game, I guess we could overlook a PF....

[Hank]

well, since it's a close game, I guess we could overlook a PF....

Well, I call HS in TX, and if I called that one in a similar situation (or likely at any time), the losing coach is unlikely to ever say, "yeah, that crew is fine with me."  I know we can't call a game based on what the coach thinks, but this was NOT a foul.  You can just as easily conclude that the defender was trying to avoid him, as you can conclude, he was trying to hit him.  In fact, I think the former is what really happened.  The defender was just moving too fast to completely avoid him.  Maybe if they're going to make this call, we should just put flags on the wide receivers and not allow any contact, just pull the flag and he's down.

[El Macman]

I know we can't call a game based on what the coach thinks, but...

I don't know anything about, and I'm not commenting on, the call in question. But, if you believe your own words, then why say them? What you really just said was that you don't want to get scratched for making a call that annoys a coach. Not totally your fault and you are not alone - that's the #1 thing wrong with Texas HS football - coaches selecting officials. Until they are out of the selection process, this thought will be on many Texas HS officials minds every time they take the field. Shameful.

[Hank]

I agree completely.  I'm just not sure how to fix the situation.  When I started, I was naive enough to believe it could easily be fixed.  10+ years in, I'm far less certain.  In fact, I'm not even sure how to start.

Also, taking out the context of ... "but this was NOT a foul."  Changes what I said a good bit.

[Headlinesman]

I think that call has to be made, as, aside from every other point made here, there was unquestionably contact between the head gears - and there is currently NO greater emphasis in the game than in avoiding anything that could remotely cause a concussion. I especially liked the reaction of the kid in street clothes