Really basic question from official hoping to start NCAA ball in the fall...

[VALJ]

NCAA "Three-and-one" enforcement - is that essentially the same as the NFHS "all-but-one"?  I feel like there's something completely obvious I'm missing in comparing these two...

[Andrew McCarthy]

It is essentially the same but there are numerous fouls that are specifically identified as previous spot enforcement- that's where the difference lies.

[TampaSteve]

So it's the same....but different...                     jk

[bossman72]

When NFHS says "all" it means ALL!  Every penalty is enforced using the all-but-one with just a small handful of exceptions.

NCAA specifies where a foul is enforced from in several instances that does not use the "ALL" but one (eg: see penalty for blocking after giving a fair catch signal during a free kick or penalty for illegal touching of a pass by an ineligible).  So, that's why they have to call it 3 and 1

[Andrew McCarthy]

The most common example is 10-2-2-b:

Fouls by the offensive team behind the neutral zone. For the following
fouls committed by the offensive team behind the neutral zone, the penalty
is enforced at the previous spot: illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block
and personal fouls (Exception: If the foul occurs in Team A’s end zone the
penalty is a safety.).

Also note that the basic spot on a running play is the previous spot when the related run ends behind the neutral zone.

NFHS tends to leave the offense in more long-yardage situations.

[Curious]

The most common example is 10-2-2-b:

Fouls by the offensive team behind the neutral zone. For the following
fouls committed by the offensive team behind the neutral zone, the penalty
is enforced at the previous spot: illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block
and personal fouls (Exception: If the foul occurs in Team A’s end zone the
penalty is a safety.).

Also note that the basic spot on a running play is the previous spot when the related run ends behind the neutral zone.

NFHS tends to leave the offense in more long-yardage situations.

Boy, do I wish the NFHS rules-makers would recognize that, in these instances, the NCAA does have a better idea!  I must inquire, however, why A's foul in the end zone is the exception.....

[Rulesman]

I must inquire, however, why A's foul in the end zone is the exception.....

My guess is the rules makers felt like there needed to be a big disincentive to hold in the EZ. Awarding points is about as big as it gets.

[Curious]

My guess is the rules makers felt like there needed to be a big disincentive to hold in the EZ. Awarding points is about as big as it gets.

"Disincentive"...humm,, I like it!  But does anyone think that an A player is actually thinking about the fouls listed as exceptions when their goal line threatened by field position?  I believe an A player will do almost anything to keep B off their QB or get the ball out of the end zone.

I understand the NCAA code is fraught with "exceptions"; but if you're going to enforce fouls by A behind the LOS from the previous spot, why have an exception to the exception?  Why make it even more complicated?

Just "curious".... 

[Rulesman]

"Disincentive"...humm,, I like it!  But does anyone think that an A player is actually thinking about the fouls listed as exceptions when their goal line threatened by field position?  I believe an A player will do almost anything to keep B off their QB or get the ball out of the end zone.

I understand the NCAA code is fraught with "exceptions"; but if you're going to enforce fouls by A behind the LOS from the previous spot, why have an exception to the exception?  Why make it even more complicated?

Just "curious"....

They do know they'd better not get caught holding in the EZ. That's simple enough, even for an o-lineman.

[bossman72]

"Disincentive"...humm,, I like it!  But does anyone think that an A player is actually thinking about the fouls listed as exceptions when their goal line threatened by field position?  I believe an A player will do almost anything to keep B off their QB or get the ball out of the end zone.

I understand the NCAA code is fraught with "exceptions"; but if you're going to enforce fouls by A behind the LOS from the previous spot, why have an exception to the exception?  Why make it even more complicated?

Just "curious".... 

They still need to make that punitive - that holding foul could could have possibly prevented the defense from tackling the ball carrier in the end zone for a safety, so the awarding of a safety is justified. 

[VALJ]

Thanks, guys.  One thing NFHS code has going for it is that there seem to be a lot fewer exceptions.   (And exceptions to the exceptions...)

[Osric Pureheart]

On the other hand, the exceptions do usually make the rules fairer and more sympathetic as long as you can remember them.  I do think that quite a few of them could be presented as their own rule rather than an exception to another rule, mind.

[VALJ]

On the other hand, the exceptions do usually make the rules fairer and more sympathetic as long as you can remember them.

Seems that way to me, too.

One other thing I'm noticing as I start to study the NCAA book is that I feel almost...  intimidated isn't the word I'm looking for, maybe overwhelmed...  for some reason.  I'm not sure if it's just my normal little niggling doubts about whether I have what it takes to be successful at the next level (like the one's I've felt about moving from LJ to R in high school ball), or if there's something more going on. 

Did anyone else go through those sorts of feelings starting out in college ball, too?

[Magician]

Seems that way to me, too.

One other thing I'm noticing as I start to study the NCAA book is that I feel almost...  intimidated isn't the word I'm looking for, maybe overwhelmed...  for some reason.  I'm not sure if it's just my normal little niggling doubts about whether I have what it takes to be successful at the next level (like the one's I've felt about moving from LJ to R in high school ball), or if there's something more going on. 

Did anyone else go through those sorts of feelings starting out in college ball, too?

I didn't have those issues personally but it may have been because I didn't do a ton of independent rules study before I started working scrimmages.  I understood some basic differences and then used experience on the field and rules study groups.  We also had a lot of quizzes that forced you into the book.  I quickly found I liked how the college book was written much better and in many cases preferr the college rules (i.e. OPI, DPI, previous spot for A foul behind the NZ).

As for the exception thing, Bob M. has posted on several different forums that is somewhat of a myth.  There are several exceptions in the HS rule book.  They just don't always highlight them as excecption.  He did a count and the difference was much smaller than you would think.

[bossman72]

If you are getting into college football officiating and still want to work high school, just a new rule of thumb and/or attitude you must take: you are now a college official who happens to do high school, not a high school official who happens to do college - I don't care how many "big" games you get in high school.

With that being said, if you're going to work both NFHS and NCAA, I've found that by dedicating 80%-90% of your study time to NCAA, you can easily drift back to the NFHS rule, since the NFHS rule is usually a simplified version.  (Examples: intentional grounding.  NCAA has exceptions, NFHS does not;  NCAA has crazy penalty enforcement on tries and overtime after a change of possession; this does not exist in NFHS.  See what I mean?)  Remember the NCAA rule because the NFHS rule is usually less complicated.  It's easier to "take off" complexity rather than "add on," if that makes any sense to you.

Keep working hard at it and it will come.  Trust me, you will do fine as long as you put the effort into it.  It generally takes 2 yrs to fully MASTER the NCAA rule book.  I equate learning football rules to learning math problems - you only get better by doing practice problems.  There are a good amount of pre-season tests floating around on the internet.  Get a hold of them and start taking them!

Also a word of advice: if you apply a Friday rule on Saturday, may God help you.  haha

Good luck and welcome to college football my friend!

[Rulesman]

...if you apply a Friday rule on Saturday...

The only thing worse is applying a Saturday rule on Friday. 

[El Macman]

The only thing worse is applying a Saturday rule on Friday. 

Both are bad, but I hardly think applying an NCAA rule in a Fed game is worse that applying a Fed rule in an NCAA game. Both games are important to the players, coaches, fans, etc., but there is a lot more at stake in collegiate games than high school. Only the most egregious of errors even get noticed by high school coaches, whereas even minor errors such as spotting the ball in the center of the field instead of on the appropriate hash mark following the 30-yard option on an illegal kick out of bounds will get noticed immediately by collegiate coaches (FCS and FBS, anyway).
If you are gonna work both, then be good enough to do justice to both. It can be done. Otherwise, pick one.

[VALJ]

\If you are gonna work both, then be good enough to do justice to both. It can be done. Otherwise, pick one.

Which is precisely what I'm worried about...   

[Hursk]

You'll be fine....the format of the books is a little different, and you're so used to one that the other seems intimidating...plus the way the exceptions are stated, it's not always a smooth read, and some rules touching the same type of play are in different places.  So that's what makes it confusing...
You've already indicated your saving grace by being conscientious enough to worry about the effects of a mistake... hang in there.  Focus on the differences in the rules as they are likely to affect the plays that you will see at your position, and flow with the football you already know.  With the exception of a few BS'rs, the college guys would much rather you ask "stupid" questions ahead of time than try to fake your way through...
Remember, if it was clear and easy, there would be no reason for this page!

Headed to ODAC?

[VALJ]

Headed to ODAC?

Hope so.  I've been invited to the clinic up at Ferrum at the end of the month.  No clue what to expect, yet, but I'm looking forward to it!

[Wing4Life]

Guys,

Take a look at this document which is titled NCAA Rules Help. . .it was initially put together by an official in the Big12 that's now in the NFL. Any suggestions or corrections that would make it better/more accurate? Thanks!

www.tbfoc.org/NCAA_RulesHelp2012.pdf

(Your link didn't work..fixed it for you/RM)

[VALJ]

Thanks for the link, Wing.  This will definitely find a home on my laptop.

[Wing4Life]

VALJ, it's a constant work-in-progress. So, be sure to the check the link for the most recent version. Rec'd lots of good suggestions so far and I'm definitely open to all feedback.

[Hursk]

Just took a "quick and dirty" scan of the document.... looks great.  Only thing that I saw was that it still retained the legal/illegal block distinction on RRK/RNK...I think that they changed that last year.  You guys might want to follow up with that.

I'd forgotten how great a job AH (and his contributors) did on that.

[VALJ]

Thanks for all the help, guys!

Since I'm already looking for study guides on the rules - can anyone suggest a study guide on mechanics?  I've heard suggestions that mechanics are going to be part of things at the clinic I've been invited to, and would like to have at least a vague clue on those, too...