tack on penalty for scrimmage kicks

[Kalle]

Is there any wonder coaches give up on the rules?!?!?!?

Except those who make them 

[Kalle]

In case there's somebody here who isn't on Rom's mailing list, what is the correct ruling on this play, based on RR's interpretations below (note that he consistently talks about team B being the next to put the ball in play).

4th and 10 on A-30. Team A is in illegal formation at the snap. A8 legally punts the ball. A80 is the first to muff the ball at B-40. B30 recovers the punt at B-42 and advances to A-45 where he fumbles. A55 recovers the fumble at A-45 and is downed there.

Is it now correct to assume that as team B is the next to put the ball in play at B-40 due to the illegal touch, team B can tack on the illegal formation penalty from there?

[TXMike]

Based on the "logic" implied in the answers to the 3 plays pedja posed to RR, I would say the reult of the play is 1st and 10 for A at the A45 so B cannot getthe tack on at the B-40.

I have some catch phrase bouncing around in my head but will have to check to see where it came from..."The illegal touch spot cannot be an enforcement spot unless it is also an illegal recovery spot"

A previous discussion on the topic.  http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=3800.0

See Play 4  http://romgilbert.us/nbul1004.pdf

[Diablo]

I think this Bulletin Play resolves the issue.

2009 Bulletin #3, Play 8:
Team A executes an on-side kick at its 30-yard line.  At Team A’s 36-yard line A65 blocks B23 in the front at the waist, and then A25 touches the ball at the A-38.
(a) The ball rolls to the A-42 where it is recovered by A88.
(b) B42 recovers the ball while grounded at the 50-yard line.

 RULING: Illegal touching by A25 and a foul by A65 for blocking before being eligible to touch the ball. (a) Team A is in legal possession of the ball at the A-42, so Team B has two options: they may take the ball at the spot of the illegal touching (the A-38), or they may have Team A re-kick at the A-25 following the five-yard penalty for the illegal block by A65. (b) Team B has three options: take the ball at the spot of the illegal touching (the A-38); have Team A re-kick at the A-25 following the five-yard penalty for the illegal block by A65; or have the five-yard penalty enforced at the dead-ball spot, the 50-yard line (they will not choose this last option). NOTE: The illegal-touching spot is not an enforcement spot since the illegal-touching privilege is canceled if the penalty is accepted. (6-1-2-g, 6-1-3, 6-1-8). 

[Kalle]

I think this Bulletin Play resolves the issue.

2009 Bulletin #3, Play 8:

Does it? I think these new rulings from RR might make that play situation obsolete. Note that the bulletin play speaks of "legal possession", not of "putting the ball next in play", these are two very different things.

It is entirely possible that RR still rules as the 2009 play, but these new rulings do throw some doubt about it.

[Diablo]

Based on the "logic" implied in the answers to the 3 plays pedja posed to RR, I would say the reult of the play is 1st and 10 for A at the A45 so B cannot getthe tack on at the B-40.

Instead of A 1/10 @ A-45, wouldn't Team B take penalty enforcement at the previous spot - A 4/15 @ A-25?

[TXMike]

All I was saying is that the result of the play was that A had 1/10 at the A-45.  And since that is the result of the play, B cannot elect a tack on from the B-40.  In most cases they would accept penalty so it would be A 4/15 at the A-25.