2012 Bulletin 4 Released

[TXMike]

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[Hawkeye]

Hmmm ...

2008 Bulletin #1 Play #1

1. Quarterback A12 is roughed after he releases a legal forward pass. Eligible A88 catches
the pass and runs to the B-4, where he fumbles. The ball strikes the goal-line pylon.
RULING: The result of the play is a touchback. The accepted penalty is enforced at the
B-4, which is the end of the run. First and goal for Team A at the B-2. Note that Team B
did not have possession at any time during the down. (8-6-1-a, 2-31-3, 9-1-2-l)

The only difference is that 9-1-2-l from 2008 is now 9-1-9

Should a play deemed important enough to be in 2 bulletins make it's way into the AR's?

[jason]

Regarding item 6, how is the enforcement spot identified?  If the BB is at the EOK, and the PSK is typically enforced from the EOK, then how is the spot of the muff identified penalty administration purposes?

I understand if it's just "BJ remembers and tells R," but that's potentially problematic considering there really isn't another time a penalty is enforced without a flag, BB, down marker, or obvious line (i.e. GL).

[FLBJ]

Regarding item 6, how is the enforcement spot identified?  If the BB is at the EOK, and the PSK is typically enforced from the EOK, then how is the spot of the muff identified penalty administration purposes?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question. The foul is not the end of the kick. The ball is muffed at the B-25 and subsequently caught at the 30. By rule, the ball is returned to where it was originally muffed (because of the fair catch situation) and this is therefore the 'end of the kick' and subsequent PSK spot (and the usual options/possibilities wrt PSK fouls being infront of or behind this spot, etc). I believe the interpretation is simply solidifying the notion of the subsequent spot in a 'muffed fair catch' scenario. 

[El Macman]

Regarding item 6, how is the enforcement spot identified?  If the BB is at the EOK, and the PSK is typically enforced from the EOK, then how is the spot of the muff identified penalty administration purposes?

I understand if it's just "BJ remembers and tells R," but that's potentially problematic considering there really isn't another time a penalty is enforced without a flag, BB, down marker, or obvious line (i.e. GL).

I think you are asking, "Mechanically," how is this spot identified?" That's where a bean bag goes. If he completes the catch, the ball is returned to the spot of the muff (where the bean bag has been dropped). That is the end of the kick, and is the Basic Spot for PSK fouls.
In real time, you may not get a bag down before he completes the catch. But, that doesn't mean the bag can't be dropped at convenient moment while whistling and signaling. In real life, the time between the muff and the catch, and the distance between the spot of the muff and the spot of the catch, are typically so miniscule as to make it unimportant to get the bean bag down.

[Diablo]

Is the following a valid statement?
Except for the spot of illegal touching, the PSK spot is always the spot where Team B puts the ball in play.
Any other exceptions?

[Kalle]

Is the following a valid statement?
Except for the spot of illegal touching, the PSK spot is always the spot where Team B puts the ball in play.
Any other exceptions?

Umm, what about a team B player catching/recovering the kick and advancing?

[Diablo]

Umm, what about a team B player catching/recovering the kick and advancing?

Another attempt to simplify the rules goes down the pipe.

[Kalle]

Another attempt to simplify the rules goes down the pipe.

I can't think of a way to simplify the PSK spot rule any better than to four separate cases (kick out of bounds, team A player catches/recovers the kick untouched by team B, team B player completes a fair catch, team B player catches/recovers otherwise).

[NVFOA_Ump]

The ball is muffed at the B-25 and subsequently caught at the 30. By rule, the ball is returned to where it was originally muffed (because of the fair catch situation) and this is therefore the 'end of the kick' and subsequent PSK spot ......

We can agree that the PSK spot here is the B-25 based on the FC signal with initial muff at the B-25 but does that change the fact that the 'end of the kick' is still the B-30?

[Diablo]

We can agree that the PSK spot here is the B-25 based on the FC signal with initial muff at the B-25 but does that change the fact that the 'end of the kick' is still the B-30?

No. 
Where are you going with that?

[Morningrise]

Another attempt to simplify the rules goes down the pipe.

One could say the PSK spot is where, if there were no return and no illegal touching outside the EZ, the ball would next be put in play.

Then, as always, you have to figure out if PSK even applies, based on all the criteria.

[Diablo]

One could say the PSK spot is where, if there were no return and no illegal touching outside the EZ, the ball would next be put in play.

Yea, that's better than all of 2-25-11.  But two exceptions make it less succinct, more difficult to remember.

[Kalle]

One could say the PSK spot is where, if there were no return and no illegal touching outside the EZ, the ball would next be put in play.

Except, when you have a catch/recovery by team A and no touching by team B, isn't that illegal touching, too? So some spots of illegal touchings are PSK spots, and some aren't.

[jason]

I think you are asking, "Mechanically," how is this spot identified?" That's where a bean bag goes. If he completes the catch, the ball is returned to the spot of the muff (where the bean bag has been dropped). That is the end of the kick, and is the Basic Spot for PSK fouls.
In real time, you may not get a bag down before he completes the catch. But, that doesn't mean the bag can't be dropped at convenient moment while whistling and signaling. In real life, the time between the muff and the catch, and the distance between the spot of the muff and the spot of the catch, are typically so miniscule as to make it unimportant to get the bean bag down.

That's exactly what I'm discussing, the mechanics of it. 

Since 2-25-11 references 6-5-1, it's clear that the PSK spot is where the receiver first touches the ball.  Speaking in terms of definitions, however, 2-16-1-c says the SK is still live in this situation until "it is caught or recovered by a player or becomes dead."  And since we typically BB the end of the kick, this situation would, mechanically speaking, require a slight deviation from the norm to be definite.  Otherwise we have a BB at the end of the kick, and enforcement from the actual PSK...which has no BB.

[NVFOA_Ump]

No. 
Where are you going with that?

Only to simply point out that we should be careful about using the term "end of the kick" interchangeably with the PSK spot.  In many cases, as here, they are not the same.

[Kalle]

Only to simply point out that we should be careful about using the term "end of the kick" interchangeably with the PSK spot.  In many cases, as here, they are not the same.

Any other cases than the muffed fair catch where they are not the same?

[El Macman]

Any other cases than the muffed fair catch where they are not the same?

Yes. See the "special cases" in the definition of the PSK Spot.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Any other cases than the muffed fair catch where they are not the same?

As El MacMan notes there are several more cases from Rule 2-11 definitions:

 - When the kick ends in Team B’s end zone ...
 - On an unsuccessful field goal attempt ...
 - Kick batted in Team B’s end zone by a player of Team A ...