HEAR YE, HEAR YE: Speak now...or forever hold your peace..

[Ralph Damren]

Actually Ralph, having been to several Yankee games at Fenway Park, I found Red Sox fans, generally quite hospitable. (although having to wear a "Grocho Marx glasses with mustache disguise") was a little annoying.

ALL fans are accepted at Fenway, AL, however discretion is advised. . The wearing of a Yankee cap or cheering with every Yankee run is not advised .

[bama_stripes]

Bama-
I have no issue dumping the 5 yards. But think about this idea:
How about we let him legally throw the ball away, but, when he does, we drop a bean bag at that spot as that is now the succeeding spot.
I believe that more equitably maintains the balance between offense and defense.

I may be having a senior moment, but isn’t that the same as LOD at the spot of the foul?

[bossman72]

So...Bossman, are you agreeing that when the ball is snapped at the B-30 and A1 rolls outside the FBZ and then legally grounds the football from the B-40,
 we drop a bean bag and the the new spot is the B-40?

No, I would just call ING and penalize 5 yards.

[CalhounLJ]

I may be having a senior moment, but isn’t that the same as LOD at the spot of the foul?

It's exactly the same...

[KWH]

Im not sure you all are tracking with me.
In an effort to pacify those who say "you are taking a great play away from the defense"
I am saying when he legally grounds the football the ball, the succeeding spot is  where he threw the pass from rather than returning the ball to the previous spot like say they do in NCAA/NFL

[CalhounLJ]

I think we understand the concept of what your are saying. At least I do. The problem with the suggestion is that it’s identical to a penalty already in existence for a similar situation. If you’re going to allow A to LEGALLY dump the ball, marking it dead at the spot of the pass seems like a penalty for a legal play.


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[KWH]

I think we understand the concept of what your are saying. At least I do. The problem with the suggestion is that it’s identical to a penalty already in existence for a similar situation. If you’re going to allow A to LEGALLY dump the ball, marking it dead at the spot of the pass seems like a penalty for a legal play.


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I don't see it as a penalty Calhoun, rather, I it as simply rewarding the defense for the "technical sack" of which they clearly earned.
There would be no foul if the passer met the requirements, but there would also not be an unfair advantage earned by throwing the ball away.

[CalhounLJ]

Yeah, I don’t have a problem with it. Sounds fair to me.

However, I’m afraid if/when that proposal is made, we will discover that coaches are much more concerned with the loss of yardage than the safety of the QB.


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[AlUpstateNY]

Im not sure you all are tracking with me.
In an effort to pacify those who say "you are taking a great play away from the defense"
I am saying when he legally grounds the football the ball, the succeeding spot is  where he threw the pass from rather than returning the ball to the previous spot like say they do in NCAA/NFL

Your suggestion would provide some consolation, to the defense, for their effort in deterring the challenge  of the intended pass, but simply lessens the consequence of a deliberate act of the offense to avoid consequence.

[Rich]

I was disappointed to see no discussion on timing rules on the survey.

Games have gotten longer and longer on Friday nights and I think the game would be better served by having the clock start on plays that end OOB once the ball is spotted, as in NCAA play, outside of 2 minutes in each half.  The 2 minute mark is already a spot where we have different rules now, so this wouldn't be a big change.

Our shortest game this season, other than a playoff game where the winning team threw once (and the losing team threw 9 times), was 2:25.  A decade ago, most of our games were under 2:10.  And we do not run a slow pace.

As far as these proposals are concerned, I voted YES for the IG, YES for using the previous spot for A fouls behind the LOS, and YES for AFD for DPI.  Then again, exceptions don't bother me much.

[ilyazhito]

I agree. Having the game clock restart when the ball is ready for play on plays out of bounds, outside the last 2 minutes of each half, is a no-brainer. Now, this is an unnecessary difference between levels, and an excuse for the officials to fudge the rules to shave time by declaring runners in when they were out on a close play. If OOB = RFP is adopted outside the last 2 minutes, officials would be more likely to want to get close OOB plays right without worrying about the timing implications.

[CalhounLJ]

I was disappointed to see no discussion on timing rules on the survey.

Games have gotten longer and longer on Friday nights and I think the game would be better served by having the clock start on plays that end OOB once the ball is spotted, as in NCAA play, outside of 2 minutes in each half.  The 2 minute mark is already a spot where we have different rules now, so this wouldn't be a big change.

Our shortest game this season, other than a playoff game where the winning team threw once (and the losing team threw 9 times), was 2:25.  A decade ago, most of our games were under 2:10.  And we do not run a slow pace.

As far as these proposals are concerned, I voted YES for the IG, YES for using the previous spot for A fouls behind the LOS, and YES for AFD for DPI.  Then again, exceptions don't bother me much.

This is interesting. My crew and I had 14 games this year, and I tracked them all as far as time. We had one game that was 1:45, one that was 2:42, and the rest fell in between those two. Granted, the one that ran long was due to an on-field injury that took some time, (ambulance, etc...), but the ones that ran longer were due to both teams throwing the ball a lot, resulting in incomplete passes. I don't know for sure, but I don't remember a ton of out of bounds plays. I'm just wondering out loud if a rule change like you suggest would speed up the game significantly? It would certainly depend on the percentage of plays that ended out of bounds...

Now, if we were to change the rules and allow the clock to run on incomplete passes, then we would have a short game!

[NVFOA_Ump]

Our shortest game this season, other than a playoff game where the winning team threw once (and the losing team threw 9 times), was 2:25.  A decade ago, most of our games were under 2:10.  And we do not run a slow pace.

You would have to have a lot of OB runs for a winding the game clock when the is spotted to make any significant difference in overall game time.  IMHO it's not the runs OB but the passing game that has the big impact on total time.

[Ralph Damren]

Back in 1996 we adopted starting the clock on the snap following COPs. At our 1997 meeting we were overwhelmed with complaints of games taking 'twice as long' along with a proposal to go back to the old rule. GET THIS: you need 2/3 of voters to pass a rule. Passing the rule in 1996 was achieved by a couple of votes. Changing back to the old rule also required 2/3 voters. It failed by ONE VOTE  = nearly 1/3 of the voters changed their mind  . I voted both to pass in 1996 and to keep in 1997 ,as I felt the time involved in changing teams, balls, chains, etc should result in starting on the snap.

I wasn't convinced with the 'lobster crate' of complaints and attended a game with clip board, pencil ,stop watch and coffee jug. The final score was 35-27. Game lasted 2:18.

MY FINDINGS:
 17 incomplete passes    :30                 =  8:5 minutes
 19 COPs                       :30                 =  9.5 minutes
  9  TDs                       4:00                 = 36.0 minutes

MY OBSERVATION :

There are two major factions controlling the length of our games. After a TD, (1) the players hug & dance; (2) the school song is played, (3) the cheerleaders prance, (4) enter Hans & the kicking team, (5) Hans kicks the ball into the puckerbrush , (6) the  most agile of the chain crew retrieves it; (7) teams huddle on sidelines, (8) kickoff teams position.

The second factor is today's passing game.Unless your Coach B's Patriots playing at the Bills (QB threw only 3- 40 MPH winds) ;they are many more passes thrown then yesteryear.  More passes= more incomplete pases.

IMHO, the more rules we pass that favors the offense, the more scoring you'll see, the longer the games will last.
 

[AlUpstateNY]

Back in 1996 we adopted starting the clock on the snap following COPs. At our 1997 meeting we were overwhelmed with complaints of games taking 'twice as long' along with a proposal to go back to the old rule. GET THIS: you need 2/3 of voters to pass a rule. Passing the rule in 1996 was achieved by a couple of votes. Changing back to the old rule also required 2/3 voters. It failed by ONE VOTE  = nearly 1/3 of the voters changed their mind  . I voted both to pass in 1996 and to keep in 1997 ,as I felt the time involved in changing teams, balls, chains, etc should result in starting on the snap.

I wasn't convinced with the 'lobster crate' of complaints and attended a game with clip board, pencil ,stop watch and coffee jug. The final score was 35-27. Game lasted 2:18.

MY FINDINGS:
 17 incomplete passes    :30                 =  8:5 minutes
 19 COPs                       :30                 =  9.5 minutes
  9  TDs                       4:00                 = 36.0 minutes

MY OBSERVATION :

There are two major factions controlling the length of our games. After a TD, (1) the players hug & dance; (2) the school song is played, (3) the cheerleaders prance, (4) enter Hans & the kicking team, (5) Hans kicks the ball into the puckerbrush , (6) the  most agile of the chain crew retrieves it; (7) teams huddle on sidelines, (8) kickoff teams position.

The second factor is today's passing game.Unless your Coach B's Patriots playing at the Bills (QB threw only 3- 40 MPH winds) ;they are many more passes thrown then yesteryear.  More passes= more incomplete pases.

IMHO, the more rules we pass that favors the offense, the more scoring you'll see, the longer the games will last.
 

Once AGAIN, Ralph, You nailed it.  The shenanigans after a score (& often repeated after the successful try) are apparently universal, although some of the same activities after an unexpected COP (fumble recovery, interception run a close second.  3rd, might be those extra last second instructions, after an anticipated COP (unsuccessful 4th down).  Apparently those instructions, assignments can ONLY be discussed and happen AFTER the opponents 4th down fails. A close 4th might be the frequent sideline instructional clinics held during (extended) intermission between periods.

The frequency of dogs running onto the field seems to have improved considerably in recent years, but that seems attributable more likely to local Animal Control than site management attention and/or focus. 

[CalhounLJ]

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[bossman72]

Just out of curiosity, how long is halftime in your areas?

I can probably speak for all of PA and say we use the full 20 minutes (+3 min warmup period).  I hear some states don't do that...

[Ralph Damren]

Just out of curiosity, how long is halftime in your areas?

I can probably speak for all of PA and say we use the full 20 minutes (+3 min warmup period).  I hear some states don't do that...

Excepting state championship games with 20 minute halftimes, all other games have 15 minute halftimes unless they notify the visiting team 24 hours in advance. On occasion a school will ask for the expanded halftime for their homecoming game.

We take it a step further and IF both teams are on the field prior the 15 expiring, we assume that is implied mutual consent to shorten the halftime. We then reset the game clock to 3:00 for the required warmup. In my pre-season meeting with the coaches, I remind them of this and advise that if they want the 'full 15' please let us know and we'll continue the countdown. We've had that protocol for 15+ years without any problems and the number of times a coach has asked for the 'full 15' ,if out early, I could count on one hand ( even if I lose a couple of fingers).

[CalhounLJ]

We had one 10 minute half this year. Trying to get the game in ahead of an approaching storm. All others were 20. 


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[bama_stripes]

Here, the total time from the end of the first half to the RFP for the second half is right at 30 minutes.

[Ralph Damren]

The reality is that our game is taking longer at every level. Note the NFL start times on Sunday were 1:00 & 4:00; now 1:00 & 4:15 ,a the early games were running over. In Maine, our games start at 7:00. Some end a little before 9, while others go beyond 9:30. My Friday nights are for football and once the game is over, I drive to our 'refreshment stand' to have a Koolaide  with our other crews and watch 'The Fifth Quarter' - a wrapup of football games on a local channel - to see if everyone's war stories really occurred  . That starts at 11, and I always arrive in advance. To me, Friday night gives me the chance to put the worries of the world on the back burner and just enjoy working the game and the camaraderie of my friends thereafter. To me, the length of the game is only secondary. I understand of it being challenging ,if you have other things to do, but I stay in football mode until bedtime around midnight.

I started umpiring baseball 4 years before I began football and may explain my calmness as to game length. I've some baseball games that are over in less than an hour and other that last more then three. In our game you are usually moving, in baseball 90+% of the time you're just standing, watching the pitcher scowl at the batter while the batter scratches his....whatever.

In Maine, 29 out of 75 football programs are eight-man. I worked several of them this Fall and a defensive battle might be 50-40  ..3 less tacklers = more open field = more TDs = longer games...I still love working them .

                                    That's My Rant of The Day....

[ncwingman]

Just out of curiosity, how long is halftime in your areas?

I can probably speak for all of PA and say we use the full 20 minutes (+3 min warmup period).  I hear some states don't do that...

Standard halftime here is 15+3. It's generally only longer on homecoming night. A pipe dream of mine is getting some coach to have a 14:36 halftime -- not an even number of minutes. There's no rule that says it has to be in full minute increments...

That being said, when I was in high school every halftime was 20 minutes as each band had *exactly* 10 minutes to put on their show. Do NOT anger the band directors by changing that up.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Excepting state championship games with 20 minute halftimes, all other games have 15 minute halftimes unless they notify the visiting team 24 hours in advance. On occasion a school will ask for the expanded halftime for their homecoming game.

We take it a step further and IF both teams are on the field prior the 15 expiring, we assume that is implied mutual consent to shorten the halftime. We then reset the game clock to 3:00 for the required warmup. In my pre-season meeting with the coaches, I remind them of this and advise that if they want the 'full 15' please let us know and we'll continue the countdown. We've had that protocol for 15+ years without any problems and the number of times a coach has asked for the 'full 15' ,if out early, I could count on one hand ( even if I lose a couple of fingers).

We do the same here in MA.  At least in the 3 leagues that our commissioner is responsible for.

[AlUpstateNY]

We do the same here in MA.  At least in the 3 leagues that our commissioner is responsible for.

Pretty much the same in NY, 15 minutes  (Set on the game clock when both teams leave the field) unless there is notification of an agreed extension to 20minutes.  We also abide in resetting the game clock to 3 minutes when both teams have returned to the field, for the mandatory warm-up period.  If games are televised, we adjust to fit television requirements, which are reviewed and accepted by both teams and the officials.

[JasonTX]

Most of ours are 28 minutes.   I don't mind it.  Gives plenty of time to relax and take care of business.