Author Topic: illegal Shift (Read 8599 times)

bmtjim · « **on:** December 03, 2012, 06:08:31 PM »

Play from a playoff game involving a school from my area.

Team A is trailing by 3 points with 5 seconds left in the game and the clock running. On 4th down the Team A quarterback spikes the ball to stop the clock. Several of the Team A players were not set and a flag was thrown for illegal shift. Team A was penalized 5 yds and managed to kick a tying field goal as time expired.
I believe that this type of illegal shift foul was covered in a bulletin as one which killed the play and required a 10 second runoff. Since we don't have a zap 10 in high school, my question is would the foul still kill the play or not.

TXMike · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:15:31 PM »

That rule change (an illegal shift that converts to a false start) was NOT excepted by UIL so Yes, it converts to a false start. Shut it down, restart clock on the RFP. Yes, Team A gets an advantage.

bmtjim · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:27:19 PM »

Thanks, that is what I replied when asked the question, but then started doubting myself.

El Macman · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2012, 06:32:13 PM »

Quote from: bmtjim on December 03, 2012, 06:08:31 PM

On 4th down the Team A quarterback spikes the ball to stop the clock.

They wanted to spike the ball on 4th down? Really? Either they have a serious case of DA, or they expected to be called for a pre-snap foul. I don't think any team is that smart.

Well, if B got screwed by the UIL's rules, I wonder to whom they should be complaining?

Etref · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:33:28 PM »

Quote from: El Macman on December 03, 2012, 06:32:13 PM

They wanted to spike the ball on 4th down? Really? Either they have a serious case of DA, or they expected to be called for a pre-snap foul. I don't think any team is that smart.

Well, if B got screwed by the UIL's rules, I wonder to whom they should be complaining?

But I have seen the dumb arse coach spike the ball on 4th down.........

He was amazed that he did not get to keep the ball

TexDoc · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2012, 08:45:01 PM »

On a completely unrelated topic, hello Jim!!! How you doing?

bmtjim · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:20:20 AM »

Retirement is great and so is the golf.

Welpe · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:04:02 PM »

Starting at the 2:42 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QlLjWl_Vw40#t=9725s

TXMike · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:12:23 PM »

Interesting that the U thought he needed to make that call. He did not trust his flank guy? And if he is watching that WR run way out there, who is watching the interior line?

Anyway...looks like ball may have been snapped before the RFP also.

There is no such thing as a dead ball illegal shift. I think we all know what he meant though, an illegal shift that converts to a false start.

In college, would have been game over thanks to the Zap10, but not here.

The team that kicked the FG ended up losing so I guess that is why this has not created too much consternation down here.

fencewire · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:12:08 PM »

Quote

looks like ball may have been snapped before the RFP also.

He wound the clock long before the snap... He didn't let his LJ get in position though.

TXMike · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:14:58 PM »

I am talking about on the action that lead to the "illegal shift" call, not on the FG attempt

fencewire · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:24:37 PM »

ah... yes, rewatched that and yes... it would appear so..

TXMike · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:33:01 PM »

An umpire who is not watching my wide receivers might notice the ball was snapped before the RFP

bmtjim · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:40:03 PM »

While I may not have used the right terminology in my original post, I did mean the illegal shift that converts to a false start.

El Macman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:00:35 PM »

What is going on?
Absolutely no attempt by anyone to make the wide receivers comply with the 9-yark mark rule.

Then they let the Nederland coach just be wherever he wants to be. Not only during the false start debate -which went in his favor, but also during the post-regulation period. Inexcuseable. GET HIS BEHIND OFF THE FIELD.

I don't care that the U made the call - somebody needed to. If the wing was gonna make the call, his flag would have gone up, too. It didn't.

psv · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »

I must have missed who was moving there. At 2:42:38, it looks like everyone on the screen is set. At 2:42:39 the ball is snapped. Are they getting the far outside receiver off the screen then? Maybe the flanks thought everyone was set, which is why they didnt throw their flags. Maybe I am missing something.

If the flanks thought their guys were set, then maybe that should have been game over.

Also, the R knows if he has blown the RFP or not, certainly he could tell if they snapped it before he blew the whistle.

Just my .02 worth, although I am curious what I am missing on folks being set.

TXMike · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2012, 06:14:36 PM »

The U is pointing out there at the WR that left the screen so that must be the one who never got set before the snap.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2012, 06:23:36 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on December 04, 2012, 06:14:36 PM

The U is pointing out there at the WR that left the screen so that must be the one who never got set before the snap.

And not looking at the ball.

TXMike · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2012, 07:22:06 PM »

No need to look at the ball...what are they gonna do...snap before the ready? Nah...

mishatx · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:11:55 PM »

Quote from: fencewire on December 04, 2012, 03:12:08 PM

He wound the clock long before the snap... He didn't let his LJ get in position though.

The bad part about our rules lacking the zap10 is that the offense gets a decided advantage by fouling. I don't have a problem with mitigating that advantage as much as possible by winding even before all officials are in position. I have been in a few games where a hurry-up offense beats the whistle and gets a chance to run a "free" play after all of the confusion, stepping off, and resetting.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2012, 12:24:30 PM »

To me, if the coach had just started signaling to decline the penalty, the R would have had little choice but to signal IS, then decline, and wind the clock -- possibly holding out arms for incoming offensive substitution, which would have meant the clock would run come close to running out.