« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Kick play  (Read 5982 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ref13

  • Guest
Kick play
« on: July 22, 2015, 07:16:24 AM »
K 4/10 from the R 20.  K attempts a field goal.  R21 is standing in the end zone in front of the goal post.  As the field goal try is approaching the goal post.  R21 jumps up and bats the ball away, preventing the field goal and the ball falls out of bounds in the end zone.

Whay say you?
Logged

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4682
  • FAN REACTION: +865/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Kick play
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 08:01:51 AM »
I say touchback.
Logged

Offline Stinterp

  • *
  • Posts: 188
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-16
Re: Kick play
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 08:10:33 AM »
Touchback. Case book play 6.3.1 Sit. B
Logged

Ref13

  • Guest
Re: Kick play
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2015, 08:19:09 AM »
Just a question why would this not be illegal batting
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 11:56:49 AM by Ref13 »
Logged

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-9
Re: Kick play
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 08:29:02 AM »
Good question Ref13.  R21 definitely intentionally hit the ball with his hand, and it was not a pass or fumble in flight, and it was not a low scrimmage kick in or behind the NZ.  You may have found something that the rules committee should address.

I agree that the Case Book gives us the reason to rule touchback, but you've found something interesting here.

“SECTION 2 BATTING
Batting is intentionally slapping or striking the ball with the arm or hand”


“ART. 2 . . . No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in flight, or a low scrimmage kick in flight which he is attempting to block in or behind the expanded neutral zone”

Logged

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: Kick play
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 08:29:30 AM »
Quote from: Ref13 on July 22, 2015, 08:19:09 AM
Just a question why would this not be illegal batting?
I have brought this up before.  There is a case play directly on point, although I think it has some faulty logic:

6.3.1 SITUATION B: During a field-goal attempt, R1, who is in the end zone, leaps up and blocks the ball away from the crossbar.

RULING: Touchback. The touching by R1 in the end zone causes the ball to become dead, unless the ball caroms through the goal, thus scoring a field goal. This is not illegal batting, as the touching caused the kick to fail. (4-2-2d(2); 6-3-1b)

In essence, they are saying touching precedes batting, but the definition of batting is the intentional striking or slapping of the ball, which is "touching".  Doesn't seem right.
Logged

Offline Stinterp

  • *
  • Posts: 188
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-16
Re: Kick play
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 08:39:39 AM »
How high is a goal crossbar?  This guy either has to be 7 feet tall or an unbelievable jumper for this play to happen. Has anyone ever seen this happen?
Logged

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4682
  • FAN REACTION: +865/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Kick play
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 08:41:15 AM »
IMHO, they are saying...
  Goaltending in basketball is a violation.
  Goaltending in soccer/hockey/lacrosse is legal if you are the goalie.
  Goaltending in football is a great athletic play and legal.

Hump day trivia : It occurred at least once in the NFL, who was the first (mid-'60's).....
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 08:43:48 AM by Ralph Damren »
Logged

stevestod

  • Guest
Re: Kick play
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 09:08:42 AM »

Ralph where do you come up with questions, I believe it was R.C. Owens nicknamed Ally Oop against the Redskins in the early sixties.
Logged

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4682
  • FAN REACTION: +865/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Kick play
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 09:18:45 AM »
Quote from: stevestod on July 22, 2015, 09:08:42 AM
Ralph where do you come up with questions, I believe it was R.C. Owens nicknamed Ally Oop against the Redskins in the early sixties.
My fellow Northern New Englander, Steve, wins the Kewpie doll aWaRd aWaRd. RC was then a member of the 49ers. It is said that, while being interviewed in postgame, he leaped flatfooted and grabbed a pipe on the ceiling that was later measured at 11'. A feat back then, probably not that a big of a deal now.
Logged

Ref13

  • Guest
Re: Kick play
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 11:57:49 AM »
Quote from: Stinterp on July 22, 2015, 08:39:39 AM
How high is a goal crossbar?  This guy either has to be 7 feet tall or an unbelievable jumper for this play to happen. Has anyone ever seen this happen?

Ten feet, equivalent to a basketball rim.  Which is not that high for today's athletes.
Logged

Offline bkdow

  • *
  • Posts: 239
  • FAN REACTION: +9/-3
  • Striving for the impossible level of perfection
Re: Kick play
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 02:34:00 PM »
It is not an Illegal bat.  Think of it like a punt.  Once it has crossed the goal line, the ball is technically dead but still retains the ability to score a field goal.  Thus because it is dead, you cannot have illegal batting. That's how I rectify it in my (often confused) mind.  Don't know if that helps or not.
Logged
"Don't let perfection get in the way of really good." John Lucivansky

wvoref

  • Guest
Re: Kick play
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2015, 03:12:54 PM »
Agree. Back in the dark ages when K wasn't allowed to bat a punt back towards their own goal line we would flag these bats as Illegal Bats. But not if the ball had already crossed the goal line because it was already dead and not a foul.  Just for fun what happens if the R player blocks the fg attempt at the crossbar with a volleyball type spike and it caroms off the helmet of either a K or R player and goes over the crossbar through the uprights?
Logged

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2119
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: Kick play
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 12:15:25 PM »
Quote from: wvoref on July 23, 2015, 03:12:54 PM
Agree. Back in the dark ages when K wasn't allowed to bat a punt back towards their own goal line we would flag these bats as Illegal Bats. But not if the ball had already crossed the goal line because it was already dead and not a foul.  Just for fun what happens if the R player blocks the fg attempt at the crossbar with a volleyball type spike and it caroms off the helmet of either a K or R player and goes over the crossbar through the uprights?

Off an R player we would have a score.  Off a K player, we would have a touchback.  I don't think K can score if they touch the ball beyond the NZ
Logged
Pages: [1]
« previous next »