ABA change of possession

[Sjref]

A 4-15@25 . A throws INt to b2 who then fumbles and a11 recovers.

Had this play tonight and guy was overly adamant that since A recovered short of first down, B is awarded the new series. I looked over the rul book to send him the rule that shows A is awarded a new series but I can't find it. Can anyone help? Thank you

[Atlanta Blue]

5-1-3d:
When a scrimmage down ends with the ball in the field of play or out of bounds between the goal lines, a new series is awarded to:
The team in possession at the end of the down, if there is a change of team possession during the down, unless the penalty is accepted for a non post-scrimmage kick foul which occurred before the change of possession.

[ncwingman]

5-1-3: When a scrimmage down ends .... a new series is awarded to: d) The team in possession at the end of the down, if there is a change of team possession during the down ....

I omitted the penalty clauses.

[Sjref]

Perfect guys. Thank you. Read over the rule already but skimmed by it quick.

[Ralph Damren]

Assuming the play ended inbounds, should we start the clock :

    (1) On the RFP;

    (2) On the snap;

    (3) On the advice of the DBG (down box guy - gender neutral)

[FLAHL]

(1) on the ready since the clock was not stopped by a major clock stopper

[wheels71]

on the snap (COP)

[Ump33]

It's in the title of the thread ... ABA Ready for Play

[bigjohn]

But only if B is awarded a new series, does A become B after the pick?

[VALJ]

No.  A remains A until the end of the play; B remains B until the end of the play.

EDIT (added as FLAHL made the post below):

As mentioned here (http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=11985.msg119589#msg119589), there are 10 "major clock stoppers"; if one of these occurs, the clock starts on the snap:

a - the ball goes out of bounds
b - B or R is awarded a new series
c - either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick
d - the ball becomes dead behind either goal line
e - a legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete
f - a request for a charged, or radio/TV, timeout is granted
g - a period ends
h - a team attempts to consume time illegally
i - the penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted
j - a fair catch is made

None of these occured.  Wind it up.

[FLAHL]

Major clock stoppers are:
Period ends
Charged Time Out
TV Time out
Ball goes out of bounds
Forward pass is incomplete
Team B is awarded a new series
Either team is awarded a new series after a legal kick
A score or touchback occurs
An attempt to consume time illegally
A DoG penalty is accepted

None of these happened = clock starts on the ready

[Ralph Damren]

Sorry, Wheels77, but FLAHL wins the Kewpie doll . 3-4-3b : "The clock shall start with the snap....(if) B or R is awarded a new series." With the dueling COPs in the OP, A - not B - is awarded a new series.

Rationale : When the timing rule was changed back in 1996, the philosophy was that giving the teams longer to mass substitute should become a "major clock stopper" with the start on the snap. Turning the ball over via downs, kicks, fumbles, interceptions, etc would result in mass substitutions..IE...start on snap. A retaining the ball after dueling turnovers would not. A kicking team gaining a new series via a muff by R or accepted penalty would result in mass substitutions = on snap; while replaying the down via accepted penalty or inadvertent whistle would not - exception on fair catch.

Hope this helps to clarify.

[Atlanta Blue]

But only if B is awarded a new series, does A become B after the pick?

A became the defense and B became the offense after the pick, but if you started the down as A, you are A until the down is over.  A, B, K and R don't change during the down, offense and defense can.

A-B-A, ready for play!

[bigjohn]

I know that I was asking Wheels, if he thought that.

[SCHSref]

Sorry, Wheels77, but FLAHL wins the Kewpie doll . 3-4-3b : "The clock shall start with the snap....(if) B or R is awarded a new series." With the dueling COPs in the OP, A - not B - is awarded a new series.

Rationale : When the timing rule was changed back in 1996, the philosophy was that giving the teams longer to mass substitute should become a "major clock stopper" with the start on the snap. Turning the ball over via downs, kicks, fumbles, interceptions, etc would result in mass substitutions..IE...start on snap. A retaining the ball after dueling turnovers would not. A kicking team gaining a new series via a muff by R or accepted penalty would result in mass substitutions = on snap; while replaying the down via accepted penalty or inadvertent whistle would not - exception on fair catch.

Hope this helps to clarify.

EXCELLENT clarification.  Thanks!     Kewpie Doll for you