Author Topic: Rules Questionnaire  (Read 1004 times)

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Offline Rich

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Rules Questionnaire
« on: November 22, 2023, 10:38:01 AM »
Football questionnaire is out.

http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/nfhs-sport-questionnaires/

I'd personally like to see some time-saving measures.  We had 2 games over 3 hours this past year and another 5-6 over 2:30.  I don't think not stopping the clock after first downs is the answer, however.  I'd rather see the clock start on the RFP on OOB plays outside of 2 minutes left of each half.  We already use the 2 minute mark for changes in penalty enforcement, it would be easy to implement this.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2023, 05:06:43 PM »
Football questionnaire is out.

http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/nfhs-sport-questionnaires/

I'd personally like to see some time-saving measures.  We had 2 games over 3 hours this past year and another 5-6 over 2:30.  I don't think not stopping the clock after first downs is the answer, however.  I'd rather see the clock start on the RFP on OOB plays outside of 2 minutes left of each half.  We already use the 2 minute mark for changes in penalty enforcement, it would be easy to implement this.


At the same time, efficiency among most high school crews is very bad (in general), especially on penalty enforcement.  I think if we corrected that, we'd have better game times.

Offline Rich

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2023, 03:53:45 PM »
I don't disagree.  Our crew works at keeping a good pace. If we're running this long, others are too.

One of our 3 hour games was 70-62. I'm not sure any rule change would've helped that.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2023, 05:17:24 PM »
I don't disagree.  Our crew works at keeping a good pace. If we're running this long, others are too.

One of our 3 hour games was 70-62. I'm not sure any rule change would've helped that.

Teach your back judge to tackle better. >:D

Offline Rich

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2023, 11:15:06 AM »
35+ years and I've never seen receivers so open than that night.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2023, 01:41:26 PM »
In Ohio we do not give the captains their choices on penalty enforcement.

If it is a situation where the choice is not obvious we talk to the coach.

Saves a lot of time.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2023, 06:01:14 AM »
In Ohio we do not give the captains their choices on penalty enforcement.

If it is a situation where the choice is not obvious we talk to the coach.

Saves a lot of time.

That's a national rule now (10-1-1) . A coach can designate a rules guru to make the call- its usually himself. IMHO, 80%+ of the calls are obvious.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2023, 08:02:13 AM »
That's a national rule now (10-1-1) . A coach can designate a rules guru to make the call- its usually himself. IMHO, 80%+ of the calls are obvious.

I agree, although I’d put the number closer to 90%.  I find myself consulting the coach most often on KOB, since HS kickers vary so much in their abilities/leg strength.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2023, 04:01:08 PM »
I don't disagree.  Our crew works at keeping a good pace. If we're running this long, others are too.

One of our 3 hour games was 70-62. I'm not sure any rule change would've helped that.

I won't argue that some games are going too long, but in my neck of the woods I feel rule changes to shorten games disproportionally affect games that are already short and not have an effect on the causes that make games too long.

Games that I've had that are excessively long fall into three categories:

1) 70-62 games where there's a ton of untimed try downs and 1 minute intermissions between kickoffs.
2) Pass heavy offenses without a good QB (or receiver corps) resulting in many incomplete passes.
3) Many/major administrative stoppages, whether it's injuries, penalties or weather.

The only one of those that can really be addressed with a rule change is having some weird hybrid clock stoppage on an incomplete pass (like, the game clock restarts when the play clock hits 25, or something like that ... no idea if that's a good idea, just spitballing something).

Rule changes about not stopping the clock after a first down, or restarting it after going OOB aren't going to shorten the really long games because the delays that make them really long aren't affected by that timing rule.

I'm also not a fan of changing the timing rules under 2 minutes because most clock operators in my area are volunteer parents, not officials. I'd be expecting an inconsistent application of the rules, to state it mildly (as is also seen with the 40/25 play clocks as well, which are *never* officials if it's a visible clock).

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2023, 07:22:21 PM »
I won't argue that some games are going too long, but in my neck of the woods I feel rule changes to shorten games disproportionally affect games that are already short and not have an effect on the causes that make games too long.

Games that I've had that are excessively long fall into three categories:
1) 70-62 games where there's a ton of untimed try downs and 1 minute intermissions between kickoffs.
2) Pass heavy offenses without a good QB (or receiver corps) resulting in many incomplete passes.
3) Many/major administrative stoppages, whether it's injuries, penalties or weather.
[/quote
The mandatory adoption of the current 40/25 (visible play clock), unfortunately seems somewhat , "An excessive solution in search of correcting an unnecessary problem, at the High School level" creating an unnecessary installation/maintenance expense to High School facilities across the Nation at the expense of televised sportscasts to Collegiate &Professional Levels.

For multiple decades the requirement of Referees declaring (both audibly & visibly), after every down that a standard (RFP of Snap) signal began a 25 second interval for play to resume had started either from that instant, or from a subsequent "snap", providing a consistent signal, from a unique source, who had the authority to delay that signal if/when necessary to address unusual, and/or specific circumstances deemed necessary.

Currently, the Backjudge, or other deep official, providing a visible hand countdown of the remaining RFP interval is designed to alert the final 5 seconds of the RFP duration directly observable to the "Calling" Offensive Player to further minimize potential ,and unnecessary, delays. In unusual, or unanticipated situations causing allowable delay. The Referee is empowered to respond, termi, exclusively, by the Referee, and or any interruptions thereof.  Confusion was minimal and directly related to specific circumstances.

Circumstances involving normal delays (ball retrieval from long passes, pass receivers returning distances from pass routes or other minimal and specific delays were observable by the Referee, who could adjust his RFP implementation signal to address specific situations, as opposed to blanket, or unrelated circumstances.

Visible "Play Clocks" may well have practical application at Collegiate and/or Professional levels, to satisfy their unique applications, but at the High School (& Youth) levels seem far more a "solution (and expense) in search of a problem".

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Rules Questionnaire
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2023, 10:26:43 AM »
Several years ago, or as I recalll, last century there was a radical proposal. It would have made a touchdown worth seven  points, UNLESS you chose to go for two, where a touchdown would be worth only six. The 35-28 game would be shortened by  an estimated 30 minutes. there was not any support for that change and very little little discussion on the length of a game. I don't forsee any movement to the contrary.