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Author Topic: You don’t see this happen much!!  (Read 4463 times)

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Offline TXMike

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You don’t see this happen much!!
« on: September 16, 2019, 07:49:10 PM »
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2019, 04:04:50 PM »
I wish they would tighten up the formation rule. I just watched the Saints run a scrimmage play and not one lineman except the snapper was anywhere close to being on.


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Offline centexsports

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2019, 06:26:59 PM »
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 08:18:48 AM by centexsports »
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 10:12:09 AM »
NFL 6-1-ARTICLE 1. FREE KICK
A free kick is a kickoff or safety kick that puts the ball in play to start a free kick down. It must be made from any point on the kicking team’s restraining line and between the inbounds lines.

A kickoff puts the ball in play at the start of each half, after a try, and after a successful field goal. A dropkick or placekick may be used for a kickoff.
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Offline centexsports

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 11:12:33 AM »
I was not questioning the legality of using a drop kick.   I was questioning whether this was a drop kick.   It appears that the NCAA and NFL rules are similar about the use of a drop kick on a Free Kick.   Since they are similar, I ASSUMED that the definition of a drop kick would be similar.

Drop Kick
ARTICLE 3. A drop kick is a kick by a player who drops the ball and kicks it as it touches the ground.

During the play in question, he did neither of the things in red.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 11:32:15 AM by centexsports »
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2019, 07:54:43 PM »
Quote
The "drop kick" by the Ravens could not be legal

Could have fooled me.
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Offline Kalle

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 06:53:18 AM »
The NFL rule reads: "A Drop Kick is a kick by a player who drops the ball and kicks it as, or immediately after, it touches the ground." Not sure how NFL interprets "immediately after", in my NCAA games this would have been an illegal kick, ball stays dead, five yards from the succeeding spot.
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Offline Morningrise

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 02:42:24 PM »
Suppose this technique was used on a scrimmage kick and the ball goes through the uprights. What do you have?

A) A touchback
B) Three points
C) An incomplete forward pass
D) A fumble and a foul for kicking a loose ball
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Offline js in sc

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 03:49:28 PM »
Quote from: Morningrise on September 24, 2019, 02:42:24 PM
Suppose this technique was used on a scrimmage kick and the ball goes through the uprights. What do you have?

A) A touchback
B) Three points
C) An incomplete forward pass
D) A fumble and a foul for kicking a loose ball
B three points
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 05:18:07 PM »
Quote from: js in sc on September 24, 2019, 03:49:28 PM
B three points

Not in NCAA.  That’s a foul for “illegally kicking the ball,” and is treated as a fumble.  The pure result of the play would be a touchback, B, 1/10, B-20.  If Team B elects the penalty, that would be 10 yards from the spot of the kick, or previous spot, if the spot of the kick is behind the NZ, plus loss of down.

I don’t know much of anything about NFL rules.  But, in NCAA, the ball must be kicked as it touches the ground to be a drop kick.  Period. If the ball clearly rises off the ground before it is kicked, then it is not a drop kick.  It is illegally kicking the ball, and a foul.

Robert

Robert
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Offline Kalle

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2019, 11:28:30 PM »
Quote from: ElvisLives on September 24, 2019, 05:18:07 PM
Not in NCAA.  That’s a foul for “illegally kicking the ball,” and is treated as a fumble.

Considering this is an intentional act to kick the ball almost legally, would you call it an illegal kick and kill the play?
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2019, 06:25:10 AM »
Kalle,
No, I don’t believe so.  During a scrimmage down, an “illegal kick” is a kick made in a manner that complies with the rules, but at a time when kicking the ball is illegal, i.e, from beyond the NZ, or after a change of team possession, and they cause the ball to become dead.  Kicking a live-ball in a manner not prescribed by rule is “illegally kicking the ball”(9-4-4), and is a live-ball foul. So, kicking a live-ball after dropping it to the ground and allowing it to bounce appreciably is kicking the ball in a manner not prescribed by rule, so, illegally kicking the ball (live-ball).

On free kicks, kicking the ball illegally teed, from outside the hash marks, or punting it on a kickoff are acts that are considered to be before the ball becomes alive, so they are illegal kicks (dead-ball fouls).

Robert
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Offline Morningrise

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2019, 02:06:18 PM »
Quote from: ElvisLives on September 24, 2019, 05:18:07 PM
If Team B elects the penalty, that would be 10 yards from the spot of the kick, or previous spot, if the spot of the kick is behind the NZ, plus loss of down.

Nitpick: the enforcement spot for illegal batting/kicking *can* be behind the previous spot.

Commentary: I am sad that this isn't considered a valid drop kick. They're so rare, a remnant from the middle of the last century, and I would like to see them come back a little bit. If you are willing to kick a weirdly-shaped ball even after it has bounced, when you could have just had a teammate hold it still, I wish the rules would reward your spunk and can-do spirit.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You don’t see this happen much!!
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2019, 02:25:25 PM »
Quote from: Morningrise on September 26, 2019, 02:06:18 PM
Nitpick: the enforcement spot for illegal batting/kicking *can* be behind the previous spot.

Commentary: I am sad that this isn't considered a valid drop kick. They're so rare, a remnant from the middle of the last century, and I would like to see them come back a little bit. If you are willing to kick a weirdly-shaped ball even after it has bounced, when you could have just had a teammate hold it still, I wish the rules would reward your spunk and can-do spirit.

That's not nitpicking, at all.  It is accurate, and I was incorrect on that part.  Yes, 10 yards, with true Basic Spot enforcement.  Thanks for catching that.
Robert
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