R's free kick line.

[Bugolathe]

After a try, R commits 4 separate UNC fouls.  After marking all 4 off, K's free kick line is R's 7 1/2 yard line.  Where is R's free kick line?  6-1-1 says these lines must be 10 yards apart. 

[ilyazhito]

The K 17 1/2 yard line, duh.

[js in sc]

The K 17 1/2 yard line, duh.

R's free kick line should be 2 1/2 yards deep in the end zone.

[bbeagle]

It's really not a problem in NFHS rules. R's line is always 10 yards away. Even if an onside kick is attempted, the ball will be dead once it reaches the goal line, so it doesn't matter that R is 2 1/2 yards deep in their end zone.

Now, what if there were 4 more R fouls.... 3 3/4 ... 1 7/8 ... inside the 1... inside the 1/2 yard line...

First Question: K is kicking off inside the 1/2. Now, must all R players be on their tip-toes in the very back of the end zone as they have no room to really stand back there? Must they be on the field?

Second Question: Isn't it best for K to just knock the ball off the tee and touch it at the 1/2 yard line?

[prab]

An alternative answer might be that R has no free kick line because after 4 separate USC penalties all between the try and the subsequent KO, the game is declared a forfeit, with K awarded the win.  Just saying..

[bbeagle]

An alternative answer might be that R has no free kick line because after 4 separate USC penalties all between the try and the subsequent KO, the game is declared a forfeit, with K awarded the win.  Just saying..

After a kick to tie the game at 7-7 late in the 4th quarter, the kicker is roughed. Flag.
The defense also lined up over center and hit the center. Flag.
Coach yells that that those are joke calls in a tight game like this and gets animated. Flag.
Another player supporting his coach says, 'F***ing Refs are cheats!'. Flag.

Everything calms down after this. You'd end the game with a forfeit?

(K would rather keep the game tied instead of go for 2)

[FLAHL]

After a try, R commits 4 separate UNC fouls.  After marking all 4 off, K's free kick line is R's 7 1/2 yard line.  Where is R's free kick line?  6-1-1 says these lines must be 10 yards apart. 

Ralph usually provides some very good advice on this one - remember to use the chains to establish R's receiving line since it is 2.5 yards into the EZ. 

Now, what if there were 4 more R fouls.... 3 3/4 ... 1 7/8 ... inside the 1... inside the 1/2 yard line...

9-10-2 and 9-10-5 Gives us some very interesting options on this one, including declaring a forfeit. 

[SCHSref]

After a kick to tie the game at 7-7 late in the 4th quarter, the kicker is roughed. Flag.
The defense also lined up over center and hit the center. Flag.
Coach yells that that those are joke calls in a tight game like this and gets animated. Flag.
Another player supporting his coach says, 'F***ing Refs are cheats!'. Flag.

Everything calms down after this. You'd end the game with a forfeit?

(K would rather keep the game tied instead of go for 2)

The first 2 are personal fouls, not USC. Can't have USC if you have contact.

[Ralph Damren]

Ralph usually provides some very good advice on this one - remember to use the chains to establish R's receiving line since it is 2.5 yards into the EZ.

Thanks, FLAHL, the chains could help determine R's free kick line anytime it's not on a solid yardline. If K's line was moved all the way to R's 1/2 yardline via naughty acts, K would have a challenge knocking the ball off the tee with a part of it touching the goal line which would become a touchback. Remember, guys, K could always decline a deal ball foul(s) to have the kick in a more workable location. Accepting only the first 3 USC/DBPF fouls would move the ball to R's 15 with a probable onside kick to follow.
While RTK & RTS are live ball fouls, K could either take one or both and retry for 2.

[ncwingman]

It's really not a problem in NFHS rules. R's line is always 10 yards away. Even if an onside kick is attempted, the ball will be dead once it reaches the goal line, so it doesn't matter that R is 2 1/2 yards deep in their end zone.

Now, what if there were 4 more R fouls.... 3 3/4 ... 1 7/8 ... inside the 1... inside the 1/2 yard line...

First Question: K is kicking off inside the 1/2. Now, must all R players be on their tip-toes in the very back of the end zone as they have no room to really stand back there? Must they be on the field?

Second Question: Isn't it best for K to just knock the ball off the tee and touch it at the 1/2 yard line?

If K is smart, they would not accept the yardage for additional fouls that would cause them to kickoff from inside the R10 (realistically, the R15)-- by keeping R's line in the field of play, K retains the option of recovering an onside kick.

If K doesn't recover the onside kick, they've pinned R back inside the 5 -- if the kick goes OB untouched, R can add 5 to the OOB spot, but they do NOT have the K line + 25 option since that would be in the endzone.

If they're kicking off from inside the 1, they're only "real" play is to knock it over and commit a first touching violation at the 1/2 -- anything else will be a touchback.

[markrischard]

While RTK & RTS are live ball fouls, K could either take one or both and retry for 2.

Only one could be enforced.

[CalhounLJ]

It's really not a problem in NFHS rules. R's line is always 10 yards away. Even if an onside kick is attempted, the ball will be dead once it reaches the goal line, so it doesn't matter that R is 2 1/2 yards deep in their end zone.

Now, what if there were 4 more R fouls.... 3 3/4 ... 1 7/8 ... inside the 1... inside the 1/2 yard line...

First Question: K is kicking off inside the 1/2. Now, must all R players be on their tip-toes in the very back of the end zone as they have no room to really stand back there? Must they be on the field?

Second Question: Isn't it best for K to just knock the ball off the tee and touch it at the 1/2 yard line?

If we keep having fouls that halve the distance we are going to forfeit and go home.


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[bama_stripes]

If we keep having fouls that halve the distance we are going to forfeit and go home.

I wouldn’t declare a forfeit in this particular situation, since all fouls happened as a result of one play.

[bbeagle]

If K's line was moved all the way to R's 1/2 yardline via naughty acts, K would have a challenge knocking the ball off the tee with a part of it touching the goal line which would become a touchback.

Can K kick the ball BACKWARDS a yard and recover it in this situation? I don't see anywhere where a kick MUST go forward on a kickoff.

[bbeagle]

The first 2 are personal fouls, not USC. Can't have USC if you have contact.

Yes, I realize that. I was just giving a scenario where I'd have 4 15-yard penalties after a single play.

[CalhounLJ]

I wouldn’t declare a forfeit in this particular situation, since all fouls happened as a result of one play.

True, but in the OP there were 4 USC fouls, then bbeagle added 4 more. If we have 8 USC fouls between a try and a kickoff, we've already lost control of the game. In this hypothetical situation of course...

Question - This is not the first time this question has come up on this board. I wonder how many times it has happened in real life. Who on here has experienced something like this? Specifically, where K has kicked off inside R's 10?

[CK51]

After a try, R commits 4 separate UNC fouls.  After marking all 4 off, K's free kick line is R's 7 1/2 yard line.  Where is R's free kick line?  6-1-1 says these lines must be 10 yards apart.

R's restraining line is 2/12 yards into the endzone (as somebody else mentioned). You should bring the chains down to figure out where exactly that is.

Another great point mentioned is that there will be a TB once the ball crosses the GL so R has no chance to return and K has no chance to recover. If I'm K i'm going offsides twice (see of R is smart enough to decline the distance penalty) and trying to recover an onsides kick.

[Ralph Damren]

R's restraining line is 2/12 yards into the endzone (as somebody else mentioned). You should bring the chains down to figure out where exactly that is.

Another great point mentioned is that there will be a TB once the ball crosses the GL so R has no chance to return and K has no chance to recover. If I'm K i'm going offsides twice (see of R is smart enough to decline the distance penalty) and trying to recover an onsides kick.

Welcome, CK51, to our forum. I hope you'll find it both interesting and informative. It would probably be easier for K to decline a DB foul or two to give R bad field position along with the chance of recovering an onside kick.

[CK51]

Welcome, CK51, to our forum. I hope you'll find it both interesting and informative. It would probably be easier for K to decline a DB foul or two to give R bad field position along with the chance of recovering an onside kick.

thank you and that's a great point about K declining a penalty or two instead

[ElvisLives]

Has Fed ever considered adopting the NCAA rule for this situation?  A penalty that would cause a team's restraining line (kicking or receiving) to be behind it's 5 yard line is deferred to the next down.  Problems solved.

Robert

[CalhounLJ]

That’s very interesting.


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[VALJ]

Question - This is not the first time this question has come up on this board. I wonder how many times it has happened in real life. Who on here has experienced something like this? Specifically, where K has kicked off inside R's 10?

Once in 17 years.

1.  B committed a DPI on the touchdown play.  A chose to enforce on the free kick.
2.  R committed a RTK on the try.  Because the kick was good, and K was up big already, R chose to keep the 1 point and enforce on the free kick.
3.  Same player who had committed the RTK expressed his opinion that the call was one that would have a normal person having sexual relations with bovine excrement.  USC - enforced from the succeeding spot.
4. R's head coach said the call resembled bovine excrement, and told the white hat that we were cheating his team and his kids.  USC -enforced from the succeeding spot.

And we did exactly as Ralph suggested, after we all got to walk an additional 52 1/2 yards before the kick off.  K set the tee on the 7 1/2 yard line; we stood up the chains to determine where the neutral zone ended; lined up R with the stake, then dropped the chains.  And the kicker put the ball through the uprights on the chip shot, just so he could get the "thrill" of kicking a field goal -without points, of course - on a kickoff.

[CalhounLJ]

Lol. That’s a great story. For the record, I hope it never happens to me.


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