Just another down to discuss

[ElvisLives]

3/10, A-20, 6:00 (2), A=10, B=7.
A12 receives the snap and looks for A88 near the sideline. A88 was pushed out of bounds by B99, but A88 returned inbounds immediately, and leaped from the A-30 and, while airborne, grasped, controlled and propelled the ball to A90 at the A-35. A90 caught the ball and advanced across B's goal line and threw the ball into the stands.
(A88 and A90 are both originally eligible players.)
Ruling:


(We've discussed similar situations before, so this shouldn't be too difficult.)

[dammitbobby]

I'll take a stab at it. Made me think on this one.

The result of the play is a touchdown by Team A. A88 going OOB is irrelevant since he was forced out and returned immediately, but the wing/deep should have a hat down indicating that it was seen. Since A88 is (still) an eligible receiver, his bat is legal.

9-4-1a: While a pass is in flight, only a player who is eligible to touch the ball may bat it in any direction.

By definition, he did not catch the ball (since he never touched the ground), and obviously you can't recover a pass, so (again by definition) he cannot have possession.  You can only bat a ball if it is a loose ball, which this is.

Touchdown stands, UNS for A90, one on his counter, DQ'd if his second, 15 yard penalty can be enforced on the try or succeeding KO.

[ElvisLives]

I'll take a stab at it. Made me think on this one.

The result of the play is a touchdown by Team A. A88 going OOB is irrelevant since he was forced out and returned immediately, but the wing/deep should have a hat down indicating that it was seen. Since A88 is (still) an eligible receiver, his bat is legal.

9-4-1a: While a pass is in flight, only a player who is eligible to touch the ball may bat it in any direction.

By definition, he did not catch the ball (since he never touched the ground), and obviously you can't recover a pass, so (again by definition) he cannot have possession.  You can only bat a ball if it is a loose ball, which this is.

Touchdown stands, UNS for A90, one on his counter, DQ'd if his second, 15 yard penalty can be enforced on the try or succeeding KO.

Totally correct. But always provide down/distance/location/time with answers. In this case: A, try, B-3, no clock (25), with succeeding K/O from A-20, OR A, try, B-18, no clock (25), and A90 has one added to his UNS counter.
I believe it was after the Peach Bowl in 2004 when Redding ‘interpreted’ such grasp/control/propelling of the ball by an airborne player to be “batting,” and not a pass, after the crew in that game ruled illegal forward pass. That eventually generated AR 7-3-6-VIII.

[Kalle]

I believe it was after the Peach Bowl in 2004 when Redding ‘interpreted’ such grasp/control/propelling of the ball by an airborne player to be “batting,” and not a pass, after the crew in that game ruled illegal forward pass. That eventually generated AR 7-3-6-VIII.

And we had debated the exact play situation a year before coming to the conclusion that it can only be a bat. And some people claim that weird play situations never happen in real life

[ElvisLives]

And we had debated the exact play situation a year before coming to the conclusion that it can only be a bat. And some people claim that weird play situations never happen in real life

“Oh, that’ll never happen.”
Famous last words. 

[Kalle]

An added wrinkle. All other facts as in the original post except A12 throws the ball from A-10, A88 does his stuff at A-5 and A90 catches the ball at A-10.

[ElvisLives]

An added wrinkle. All other facts as in the original post except A12 throws the ball from A-10, A88 does his stuff at A-5 and A90 catches the ball at A-10.

That's a good wrinkle. Since A12's pass is actually a backward pass*, by rule, that pass may NOT be batted forward by the passing team. So, A88 commits illegal batting at the A-5. A90's catch and advance, in, and of, themselves, are legal, so there is an 'apparent' touchdown. When you say "All other facts as in the original post...," then A90 still throws the ball into the stands after he crosses B's goal line - right? That being the case, the penalty for the live-ball illegal batting cancels the TD, and is 3&1 enforcement from the Basic Spot, which is the previous spot, since the end of the related run (the spot of the backward pass - A-10**) is behind the previous spot. By 3&1, the 10-yard/1/2 the distance penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul (A-5), taking the ball to the A-2 1/2, plus loss of down, bringing up 4th down repeat 3rd down. Then the dead-ball UNS by A90 is enforced 1/2 the distance, taking the ball to the A-1 3/4, resulting in: A, 4/ 3/28 1/4, A-1 3/4, snap (25), and A90 has a UNS added to his counter.
That would be quite a momentum swing.

*The fact that A88 was airborne when he touched the pass does not impact the fact that he is the first person/official to touch the ball after it had been released. His touching still makes it a backward pass.
**I hope the all-star Referee (or, perhaps, Center Judge) got a bean-bag down on this spot, or, at least positively made a mental note the yard line of this spot, in case it might be needed!

We'd be freakin' stars of the year if we had that and got it all right. 

[Legacy Zebra]

I’m going to disagree. There are 3 times when illegal batting does not carry a loss of down: when a scrimmage kick is beyond the neutral zone, when the ball is batted from a teammate’s possession, and when the passing team bats a backward pass in flight forward. So this foul would not carry a loss of down and Team A would replay 3rd down.

[ElvisLives]

I’m going to disagree. There are 3 times when illegal batting does not carry a loss of down: when a scrimmage kick is beyond the neutral zone, when the ball is batted from a teammate’s possession, and when the passing team bats a backward pass in flight forward. So this foul would not carry a loss of down and Team A would replay 3rd down.

Thank you! Yes. We learn best by experience, and, in 48 seasons, I’ve never had this happen, at any level. So that element wasn’t burned into my mind. Again, thank you. I have revised the answer.

[GuilhermeCohen]

Totally correct. But always provide down/distance/location/time with answers. In this case: A, try, B-3, no clock (25), with succeeding K/O from A-20, OR A, try, B-18, no clock (25), and A90 has one added to his UNS counter.
I believe it was after the Peach Bowl in 2004 when Redding ‘interpreted’ such grasp/control/propelling of the ball by an airborne player to be “batting,” and not a pass, after the crew in that game ruled illegal forward pass. That eventually generated AR 7-3-6-VIII.

Do you have this clip or time stamp?

[dammitbobby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhYB8OFMaN8