whistle on try

[zebraken]

In a game using 5 officials who has the whistle to kill the play once the kick obviously fails on a try? The back judge or the referee?

[ChicagoZebra]

Any official who can identify that the kick has obviously failed. IMO, if the kick is blocked, this will usually be a wing. R has eyes on the kicker, U and BJ will usually have their view blocked by the line and cannot easily pick up the ball right away.

For a kick that goes wide, whoever is under the upright. Most crews just have the BJ do it in this case.

[bama_stripes]

Our mechanics specify the BJ.  However, I will tweet as the R if the ball gets blocked behind the LOS.

Some Rs will tweet immediately after toe meets leather, since under FED rules, nothing else can happen.

[scrounge]

This is obviously dependent on local mechanics, but ours has the U give an immediate whistle upon the kick, though if blocked and continuing action may happen, it's quite common and accepted for the R to whistle as well. As BJ, I just always tell the U next to me "your whistle - quick whistle" to reinforce it. On a FG, I'd say "your whistle - slow whistle" since we don't want to kill it right after the kick on that play.

[bossman72]

I don't like doing an immediate whistle on the kick because some guys get lulled into the habit, then forget when it's a field goal.

[Ralph Damren]

I usually tweet my tweeter a split-second after the ball is kicked. When 20 players stack up, only bad things occur with a late whistle.

Editor's note : A habit that needs breaking for a field goal attempt !

[ncwingman]

This is obviously dependent on local mechanics, but ours has the U give an immediate whistle upon the kick, though if blocked and continuing action may happen, it's quite common and accepted for the R to whistle as well. As BJ, I just always tell the U next to me "your whistle - quick whistle" to reinforce it. On a FG, I'd say "your whistle - slow whistle" since we don't want to kill it right after the kick on that play.

I'm not sure I'd want to give the U the whistle on a field goal -- especially if it's at significant distance. The BJ should be able to rule on the kick breaking the plane of the goal line while the U is facing the wrong way.

[Ralph Damren]

We remind each other ,in pregame & prior to the kick , that a field goal is to be treated just like a punt and hold our tweeters. The pole-pals (BJ/HL or LJ/BJ) kill the play once the ball has reached the EZ if FG is NG or once thru the pipes.

[scrounge]

I'm not sure I'd want to give the U the whistle on a field goal -- especially if it's at significant distance. The BJ should be able to rule on the kick breaking the plane of the goal line while the U is facing the wrong way.

We have the U and BJ on the posts.

[FLAHL]

We have the U and BJ on the posts.

Does the U still handle roughing the snapper from back there?

[Logical]

Some Rs will tweet immediately after toe meets leather, since under FED rules, nothing else can happen.

B cannot score on PAT but if blocked (bad snap, hold, etc), A still has oportunity to convert for 2; yes?

[Rulesman]

I believe you need to be very careful with the immediate whistle philosophy on a scrimmage kick - try or FG attempt. An official's whistle causes the ball to become dead.

 

Think of AB's stud kicker. 0:04 left in 4Q. Make it and he wins the game. In order, toe meets leather, the whistle blows, and stud flies it wide right. I won't speak for him, but AB is savvy enough with the rules to jump all over your IAW and demand a re-kick for the it. And a dollar to a bag of donuts he is not the only coach who knows the rule.  Wait for it...

[ChicagoZebra]

B cannot score on PAT but if blocked (bad snap, hold, etc), A still has oportunity to convert for 2; yes?

Not in NFHS. 8-3-2-b. Play is dead immediately when it is apparent a place kick will not score.

If this occurs during a scrimmage kick, the ball would still be alive.

[ALStripes17]

B cannot score on PAT but if blocked (bad snap, hold, etc), A still has oportunity to convert for 2; yes?

No. A try (PAT) is over once it's apparent the kick will not score.

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[ALStripes17]

I believe you need to be very careful with the immediate whistle philosophy on a scrimmage kick - try or FG attempt. An official's whistle causes the ball to become dead.

 

Think of AB's stud kicker. 0:04 left in 4Q. Make it and he wins the game. In order, toe meets leather, the whistle blows, and stud flies it wide right. I won't speak for him, but AB is savvy enough with the rules to jump all over your IAW and demand a re-kick for the it. And a dollar to a bag of donuts he is not the only coach who knows the rule.  Wait for it...

The immediate whistle philosophy is only for PATs!

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[Rulesman]

The immediate whistle philosophy is only for PATs!

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By rule, when does the ball become dead?

[Etref]

The immediate whistle philosophy is only for PATs!

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Not a NFHS guy, but wouldn't the IW still apply. Loose ball (kick in air)  and whistle sounds. In NCAA it would definitely be IW

[Rulesman]

Not a NFHS guy, but wouldn't the IW still apply. Loose ball (kick in air)  and whistle sounds. In NCAA it would definitely be IW

My point exactly"

[SouthGARef]

Was watching a game form Tennessee that was on television a couple of weeks ago. They blew every PAT dead as soon as it was kicked. Drove me insane.

Don't do it. It's not right by rule and it's going to get you into bad habits.

[bama_stripes]

Not a NFHS guy, but wouldn't the IW still apply. Loose ball (kick in air)  and whistle sounds. In NCAA it would definitely be IW

Under FED rules, on a kick try the only two possible results are Good or No Good.

However, it's a valid point that maybe an immediate whistle is a bad habit.  Some of us old, decrepit WHs may not realize that we're playing a FG attempt from the 3 instead of a try.

[ALStripes17]

By rule, when does the ball become dead?

During a try, if B secures possession or as soon as it is apparent that a kick has failed to score.

I'm willing to bet no WH blows their whistle on a try before the ball is actually to the uprights seeing as they watch the continuous action. I only see that being an issue if the PAT begins from a further distance due to penalties.

In all instances, the point is that nothing else can occur. But I understand where you are getting at.

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[VALJ]

My association tends to be quicker on the whistle on a try than I would personally like, for the same "bad habits" reason others mention. We also make sure we give the "live ball" signal (like college officials do) for a field goal. I haven't blown one early on a FG yet, thank heavens...

In 5 man, if the snap is from inside the 15, or if we're in a "game critical" situation (late in the game with a tie or the lead on the line) we send the B and HL back, with the R covering the L's vacated side.  If it's snapped outside the 15 and not a critical situation, B is back there all by his lonesome.

In 7 man, B and F are under the goal posts for all kick tries and all FG tries. The S serves as the second umpire on a try; on a FG, he has responsibility for the determining if the kick breaks the goal line, and lines up on the goal line at his hash mark.

In all cases, the "other official" is responsible for only his goalpost, while the B is responsible for the whistle, the crossbar, and their goalpost.

[Rulesman]

During a try, if B secures possession or as soon as it is apparent that a kick has failed to score.

I'm willing to bet no WH blows their whistle on a try before the ball is actually to the uprights seeing as they watch the continuous action. I only see that being an issue if the PAT begins from a further distance due to penalties.

In all instances, the point is that nothing else can occur. But I understand where you are getting at.

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What I'm getting at is BY RULE the ball becomes dead when an official blows his whistle. Blowing it too quickly is an IAW which opens a whole new can of worms. What the rush?

[bama_stripes]

What I'm getting at is BY RULE the ball becomes dead when an official blows his whistle. Blowing it too quickly is an IAW which opens a whole new can of worms. What the rush?

But in FED, every successful kick try occurs with a "dead" ball, since it's dead by rule when it breaks the plane of R's EZ.  (Of course, there's an exception for a scoring kick.)

The reason for an early whistle is to stop play when nothing else can happen.

[Rulesman]

But it doesn't become dead UNTIL it breaks the plane. Big difference!