Question of the Day

[ElvisLives]

4/10, A-30, 4:57 (3), A=21, B=14.
A88 is blocked out of bounds by B99 at the A-35. With no further contact, A88 continues to run in the out-of-bounds area for approximately twenty yards, then returns inbounds at the A-45, while A11’s legal punt lands at the 50. With the untouched ball bounding at the B-47, A88 uses his hands to shove B80 in the back at the B-48, to get to the ball. A88 recovers the still untouched ball at the B-45, and runs with the ball across B’s goal line. When A88 recovered the ball, the game clock read 4:50 (3). When A88 crossed B’s goal line, the game clock (still running) was stopped at 4:45 (3).
 
Ruling: (Possession, down, distance, location, and game and play clock status, and score. Include all possible options.)

[clearwall]

Well first thing's first, the fact that he was blocked out of bounds is immaterial because he does not return INbounds immediately. Rule 6-1-11 says this is a 5-yd foul from the previous spot or from the subsequent deadball spot. The BIB is legal because it is an attempt to get to the ball so we have nothing there. An untouched kick recovered by the kicking team is dead where it is recovered. So you could have a repeat of the down at the A25 or (more likely) a 1st down for B at the 50.

[Kalle]

OK, let's start with the easy facts. The ball becomes dead when it is in firm possession of A88. The game clock should be reset to 4:50 if there is replay or other positive knowledge of the time. The ball belongs to team B as the kick crossed the NZ and was untouched by team B. A88 fouled when he returned at A-45. This foul could be enforced either from the previous spot or the dead-ball spot.

Based on the rule language I think A88 is not allowed to push B80 in the back as he cannot legally recover the ball. So we have another live ball foul by team A, which also can be enforced from either the PS or the DBS. Also, the advance of A88 is dead-ball delay of game foul (yes I know that most supervisors would not want the flag).

Team B has these options. In all options the game clock is 4:50, the play clock is 25s, and the game clock will start on the snap.

A 4/15 @ A-25 (accept either the illegal return or the delay of game, decline the other and the BIB)
A 4/20 @ A-20 (accept either both the illegal return and the delay of game or BIB, decline other(s))
A 4/25 @ A-20 (accept BIB and DOG, decline illegal return)
B 1/10 @ B-45 (decline all penalties)
B 1/10 @ B-50 (accept either the illegal return or the delay of game, decline the other and the BIB)
B 1/10 @ A-45 (accept either both the illegal return and the delay of game or BIB, decline other(s))
B 1/10 @ A-40 (accept BIB and DOG, decline illegal return)

The last one is the most likely one but it is plausible that team B would opt for the third one. I would not give any other options to the team B captain.

[clearwall]

.

[ElvisLives]

OK, let's start with the easy facts. The ball becomes dead when it is in firm possession of A88. The game clock should be reset to 4:50 if there is replay or other positive knowledge of the time. The ball belongs to team B as the kick crossed the NZ and was untouched by team B. A88 fouled when he returned at A-45. This foul could be enforced either from the previous spot or the dead-ball spot.

Based on the rule language I think A88 is not allowed to push B80 in the back as he cannot legally recover the ball. So we have another live ball foul by team A, which also can be enforced from either the PS or the DBS. Also, the advance of A88 is dead-ball delay of game foul (yes I know that most supervisors would not want the flag).

Team B has these options. In all options the game clock is 4:50, the play clock is 25s, and the game clock will start on the snap.

A 4/15 @ A-25 (accept either the illegal return or the delay of game, decline the other and the BIB)
A 4/20 @ A-20 (accept either both the illegal return and the delay of game or BIB, decline other(s))
A 4/25 @ A-20 (accept BIB and DOG, decline illegal return)
B 1/10 @ B-45 (decline all penalties)
B 1/10 @ B-50 (accept either the illegal return or the delay of game, decline the other and the BIB)
B 1/10 @ A-45 (accept either both the illegal return and the delay of game or BIB, decline other(s))
B 1/10 @ A-40 (accept BIB and DOG, decline illegal return)

The last one is the most likely one but it is plausible that team B would opt for the third one. I would not give any other options to the team B captain.

We have a WINNER! (And we all should have expected nothing less from Kalle!)

I would, however, give Team B their choice of penalizing at the previous spot or at the spot where the dead-ball belongs to B. I would NOT want to presume this choice to be obvious (although I concur that the last option is the one most likely to be accepted).

Others will argue that, philosophically, we would not re-set the game clock, based on the 5-5 philosophy (not more than 5 seconds lost outside of 5 minutes in the half). Yeah, I should have made it 6 seconds, because I wanted to see the clock re-set, in this scenario.

[Kalle]

I would, however, give Team B their choice of penalizing at the previous spot or at the spot where the dead-ball belongs to B. I would NOT want to presume this choice to be obvious (although I concur that the last option is the one most likely to be accepted).

Yeah, that's what I meant - I would not give all the options, just "do you want to take the ball at A-40 or replay the fourth from A-25?"

[peterparsons]

If the game clock continued running until A88 crossed the goal line, was the ball ever declared dead by an official after A88's recovery? It makes a difference as to whether there is a DOG or not.

[ElvisLives]

Yeah, that's what I meant - I would not give all the options, just "do you want to take the ball at A-40 or replay the fourth from A-25?"

We’ll, if we penalize at the previous spot (A-30), the IBB plus the DOG would put the ball at the A-15. 4/25, A-15.

[ElvisLives]

If the game clock continued running until A88 crossed the goal line, was the ball ever declared dead by an official after A88's recovery? It makes a difference as to whether there is a DOG or not.

Although I didn’t express it, I was intending to mean that the game officials sounded whistles and signaled, but A88 continued running with the ball all the way across B’s goal line, and the clock operator failed to stop the clock until A88 crossed the goal line.