Drop Kick? Or Illegal Kicking?

[CalhounLJ]

https://twitter.com/karmstrong62/status/1456372146834399235?s=21

[bossman72]

Looks like a drop kick to me.  A little blurry to see how far off of the ground it was.

[HLinNC]

I can see bounce, its a dropkick.

[CalhounLJ]

No doubt it bounced. My question is intent. I guess it doesn’t matter, but the kid bends over like he knows he messed up.


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[HLinNC]

2-24-ART. 4 . . . A scrimmage kick is any kick from in or behind the neutral zone during a scrimmage down. Either a place kick, punt, or drop kick may be used. For a place kick, the ball must be controlled on the ground or on a legal kicking tee by a teammate.

Maybe he didn't intend for it to be a drop kick, but it wasn't illegal.

[ncwingman]

No doubt it bounced. My question is intent. I guess it doesn’t matter, but the kid bends over like he knows he messed up.


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Intent is not a requirement for a legal drop kick. I agree he probably didn't mean to do that, but that wouldn't make it illegal on its own.

[fudilligas]

No doubt it bounced. My question is intent. I guess it doesn’t matter, but the kid bends over like he knows he messed up.


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he messed up because the kick did not go very far

[CalhounLJ]

Yep. This game from a crew in my association. Said the starting punter was injured. This was the kids first and only attempt. They used the field goal formation the rest of the season.

The situation is interesting because of the possibilities. If it’s a drop kick, then the fact that it touched an R player beyond the los is important. Kicking team ended up with the ball 1 yd behind the line to gain.  If it’s a legal kick it’s their ball first and 10. If it’s illegal kicking, it’s R’s ball because K is in possession behind the line to gain after 4th down.

But then, the WH thinks it touched a K player on its way through. I honestly can’t tell.


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[bama_stripes]

I must admit that I’d have a flag down on this play.

I’ve seen a few drop kicks in my career.  They’ve always been on XP attempts, and always been intentional.  I can’t imagine that I’d catch any grief from ruling an illegal kick on this play, even if I was technically wrong.

[NVFOA_Ump]

No style points here but IMHO it does technically qualify as a drop kick.  I've got a legal kick.

[Derek Teigen]

Yep. This game from a crew in my association. Said the starting punter was injured. This was the kids first and only attempt. They used the field goal formation the rest of the season.

The situation is interesting because of the possibilities. If it’s a drop kick, then the fact that it touched an R player beyond the los is important. Kicking team ended up with the ball 1 yd behind the line to gain.  If it’s a legal kick it’s their ball first and 10. If it’s illegal kicking, it’s R’s ball because K is in possession behind the line to gain after 4th down.

But then, the WH thinks it touched a K player on its way through. I honestly can’t tell.

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Hi Calhoun.  If it touched a K player on its way through wouldn't that be considered first touching and R could take the ball at spot of first touching?

[CalhounLJ]

Hi Calhoun.  If it touched a K player on its way through wouldn't that be considered first touching and R could take the ball at spot of first touching?

Yes, if it’s ruled a legal drop kick and the touching was beyond the neutral zone. If it’s illegal kicking, it’s treated like a fumble and there would be no first touching.


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[CalhounLJ]

Reading the "What is a field goal" thread from general discussion, I got to thinking. What if we move this play up to the R40. The kicker obviously mistimes the kick, and strikes it after it hits the ground. But, instead of a low trajectory, it goes high and somehow goes through the uprights. Would this be an unintentional 3pts? If so, what would the mechanics be for judging good/no good?
 

[Ralph Damren]

I don't see an illegal kick here as :
(1) A/K was in scrimmage kick formation;
(2) K player was trying to kick the ball.

Where the ball hit the ground before it was kicked, it would be considered a drop kick. In other codes, it would have a different ball placement but in NFHS it is just a scrimmage kick that could score.

IT DIDN'T SCORE 

[Curious]

Reading the "What is a field goal" thread from general discussion, I got to thinking. What if we move this play up to the R40. The kicker obviously mistimes the kick, and strikes it after it hits the ground. But, instead of a low trajectory, it goes high and somehow goes through the uprights. Would this be an unintentional 3pts? If so, what would the mechanics be for judging good/no good?
 

Great question (I was thinking the same thing).  The act, as described, meets the requirements of a drop kick and there is no requirement that A/K actually be in a scrimmage kick formation.  Mechanically, I don't think there is something specific; but I would hope the B (or somebody ) would follow the ball and count the 3 points if it went through the uprights and over the bar. I don't know of any reason why it should not score points.   

[Covid 22]

Doesn't the definition of a drop kick say that the kick has to happen as the ball hits the ground (not after it has bounced off the ground).   

If I am correct, this is an illegally kicking the ball.

Just wondering.

[GA Umpire]

Doesn't the definition of a drop kick say that the kick has to happen as the ball hits the ground (not after it has bounced off the ground).   

If I am correct, this is an illegally kicking the ball.

Just wondering.

Per 2-24-6, the definition of a drop-kick "is a legal kick by a player who drops the ball and kicks it when it touches the ground or as it is rising from the ground"
No mention that it is illegal if the ball is in the air after touching the ground.

[Ralph Damren]

Per 2-24-6, the definition of a drop-kick "is a legal kick by a player who drops the ball and kicks it when it touches the ground or as it is rising from the ground"
No mention that it is illegal if the ball is in the air after touching the ground.

With the exception of this topic, and only other drop kick I've witnessed is Doug Flute's PAT drop kick a few years ago when with the Patriots. That ball was rising from the ground. IMHO,

If k tries to punt but it turns into a drop kick, only dif is it can score.

If K tries to drop kick but it turns into a punt, only dif is it can't score.

Both are legal scrimmage kicks.

[KWH]

Many years ago, a small town in Washington State which played 8-Man football, (Roselia)
had a Japanese exchange student who drop kicked their extra points.
Akiko Kimura was a good drop kicker considering they were always on grass fields.
It was rumored that on his first successful dropkick he shouted; "I kik-a di touchdown - I kik-a di touchdown!" 
Many believe that may have just been post game bar talk...

He did however have a uniform adornment of a Japanese flag on his belt which we chose to allow.