Under Fed rules would this be the end of the game?

[bigjohn]

Could you call this a travesty of the game, the coach clearly was unethical in teaching this play. In NFL it is maybe not fixable but what about FED?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/ravens-take-clever-approach-to-seal-game-by-holding-every-bengals-player-on-safety-223632511.html

[bigjohn]

The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.

https://www.nfhs.org/nfhs-for-you/coaches/coaches-code-of-ethics/

[Welpe]

The game would be over in Fed. The hold would all be enforced from the end of the run, resulting in a safety. There is no untimed down for an accepted penalty resulting in a safety.

I would not invoke the unfair acts rule or anything similar. There is sufficient rule coverage for this play.

Ethical? Debatable. Legal? Definitely.

[bigjohn]

ART. 5 . . . Neither team shall commit any act which, in the opinion of the
 referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.
PENALTY: Unfair act – the referee enforces any penalty he considers equitable,
including the award of a score – (S27). Repeated fouls (Art. 2) – the game may
be forfeited. Hiding the ball under a jersey, (Art. 3)(S27) – 15 yards basic spot.
Using illegal kicking tee, (Art. 4), (S27) – 15 yards basic spot.

[Welpe]

Since you just like posting quotes, I'll quote my post again for you.

The game would be over in Fed. The hold would all be enforced from the end of the run, resulting in a safety. There is no untimed down for an accepted penalty resulting in a safety.

I would not invoke the unfair acts rule or anything similar. There is sufficient rule coverage for this play.

Ethical? Debatable. Legal? Definitely.

[Curious]

Ethical? Debatable. Legal? Definitely.

Agreed.

As for the Code of Ethics/Travesty arguments, those issues are for other than game officials to deal with.  Should we penalize a team for running up the score?

Using rules to your advantage is IMHO not a problem; and happens often with good coaching.  At least the R knew that the period would not be extended!  

[SouthGARef]

The idea that if there's a foul during the final timed down of a half results in the opposing team having the choice in whether to extend the period is beginning to have more and more merit.

[Rulesman]

ART. 5 . . . Neither team shall commit any act which, in the opinion of the
 referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.
PENALTY: Unfair act – the referee enforces any penalty he considers equitable,
including the award of a score – (S27). Repeated fouls (Art. 2) – the game may
be forfeited. Hiding the ball under a jersey, (Art. 3)(S27) – 15 yards basic spot.
Using illegal kicking tee, (Art. 4), (S27) – 15 yards basic spot.

You are looking for boogers using that philosophy. Rules have it covered. Half over.

[Sumstine]

That is a travesty and if judged as such should be administered. How about enforce a UNS, reset the clock to the previous start time and start on the snap. If they do it again, repeat. Sportsmanship is not defined as how bad you can cheat the rules.

[CalhounLJ]

Quick question - How many officials have applied the travesty rule during a real game? If so, please list the situation..

[prab]

Travesty Rule - Had it applied in a JV game several years ago.  Team A ahead by a comfortable margin.  A had ball on B's 1 yard line with about 1 minute to play and clock stopped.  Several members of B jumped across LOS prior to snap and contacted A players forcefully.  Half the distance.  Repeat.  Half the distance.  Warning to team B. Repeat.  At this point game was forfeited to A. 

[GAHSUMPIRE]

Could you call this a travesty of the game, the coach clearly was unethical in teaching this play. In NFL it is maybe not fixable but what about FED?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/ravens-take-clever-approach-to-seal-game-by-holding-every-bengals-player-on-safety-223632511.html

COULD you call it? Yes. SHOULD you call it? No.

[Eastshire]

Being able to derive advantage from fouling usually indicates a problem with the rules. The rules should be changed, rather than punishing a team which is using the rules to their fullest advantage.

[bama_stripes]

OK, let's assume the period IS extended for an untimed down.  The (FED) result is still a safety, so we'll have a free kick from the A-20.  All A has to do is tip the ball off the tee and fall on it.

[ncwingman]

OK, let's assume the period IS extended for an untimed down.  The (FED) result is still a safety, so we'll have a free kick from the A-20.  All A has to do is tip the ball off the tee and fall on it.

Ironically, in the NFL, that action would give "B" yet another untimed down: "The period may be extended for a 'first touching' violation" (Rule 4-8-2b-(1)).

In Fed rules, the half is over.

[bbeagle]

Ironically, in the NFL, that action would give "B" yet another untimed down: "The period may be extended for a 'first touching' violation" (Rule 4-8-2b-(1)).

Odd.

So in the NFL, if a team punts the ball with 1 second left, time expires on the punt, and the punt is then downed by the kicking team (i.e. first touching), the receivers get one last play?

I can see this exact scenario then:

AFC Championship: Raiders ahead of New England 15-13 with :04 on the clock. 4th and 10 from their 5 yard line. Raiders can't concede a safety, so they punt... knowing that they can't just punt in the air and let New England fair catch it, (fair catch field goal rule), Raiders punt it short of the deep receiver, it hits the ground, bounces around a bit, touches a Raider player at the 35, then New England recovers at the 40. Clock reads :00. Oh, look - referees conferencing - New England gets a free play to kick a scrimmage field goal at the first touching spot, the 35. New England kicks a 52 yard field goal and wins 16-15.

[ALStripes17]

Odd.

So in the NFL, if a team punts the ball with 1 second left, time expires on the punt, and the punt is then downed by the kicking team (i.e. first touching), the receivers get one last play?

I can see this exact scenario then:

AFC Championship: Raiders ahead of New England 15-13 with :04 on the clock. 4th and 10 from their 5 yard line. Raiders can't concede a safety, so they punt... knowing that they can't just punt in the air and let New England fair catch it, (fair catch field goal rule), Raiders punt it short of the deep receiver, it hits the ground, bounces around a bit, touches a Raider player at the 35, then New England recovers at the 40. Clock reads :00. Oh, look - referees conferencing - New England gets a free play to kick a scrimmage field goal at the first touching spot, the 35. New England kicks a 52 yard field goal and wins 16-15.

I was thinking the same thing. Can't find a caveat to it for scrimmage kicks. Wonder if any coaches in the NFL know this...

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[ncwingman]

Odd.

So in the NFL, if a team punts the ball with 1 second left, time expires on the punt, and the punt is then downed by the kicking team (i.e. first touching), the receivers get one last play?

I can see this exact scenario then:

AFC Championship: Raiders ahead of New England 15-13 with :04 on the clock. 4th and 10 from their 5 yard line. Raiders can't concede a safety, so they punt... knowing that they can't just punt in the air and let New England fair catch it, (fair catch field goal rule), Raiders punt it short of the deep receiver, it hits the ground, bounces around a bit, touches a Raider player at the 35, then New England recovers at the 40. Clock reads :00. Oh, look - referees conferencing - New England gets a free play to kick a scrimmage field goal at the first touching spot, the 35. New England kicks a 52 yard field goal and wins 16-15.

The scenario actually happened earlier this year in the Colts/Chargers game.

The Colts were leading 26-22 with 7 seconds left on 4th down and punted the ball away, but downed the punt (with no time left) on the 18. This allowed San Diego an attempt at an untimed hook and ladder play.... that didn't come close to working.

Edit -- fixed link

[ALStripes17]

The scenario actually happened earlier this year in the Colts/Chargers game.

The Colts were leading 26-22 with 7 seconds left on 4th down and punted the ball away, but downed the punt (with no time left) on the 18. This allowed San Diego an attempt at an untimed hook and ladder play.... that didn't come close to working.

Good stuff. And it wasn't talked about on major media outlets because the Chargers didn't win with that final play.

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[CalhounLJ]

Travesty Rule - Had it applied in a JV game several years ago.  Team A ahead by a comfortable margin.  A had ball on B's 1 yard line with about 1 minute to play and clock stopped.  Several members of B jumped across LOS prior to snap and contacted A players forcefully.  Half the distance.  Repeat.  Half the distance.  Warning to team B. Repeat.  At this point game was forfeited to A.

Actually, that foul has specific rule coverage. 9-10-2. I'm asking about 9-10-5. We throw the word travesty around a lot, but I've never heard of an example of it being applied in a real game. Just wondering.
FWIW, the dictionary defines travesty as noun (plural travesties) a false, absurd, or distorted representation of something: What would that look like?

[bbeagle]

Quick question - How many officials have applied the travesty rule during a real game? If so, please list the situation..

Yes. 1 time.

1:00 left 4th quarter. Visiting team losing 14-7. 3rd and 25 from their 30.
Ball is handed off to running back who breaks his run to the left side (visiting team's sidelines).... a mass of people chasing him, but he has clear empty sidelines at least the next 40 yards. He gains 10 yards, the home team chain crew is worried about getting hit, so they drop the chains like they're told to...

About 2 feet of the first orange pole of the chains slides onto the field as the chain is dropped. The running back trips on the chains, stumbles, bumbling, stumbling, is then hit, and falls down at the 49. A 21 yard gain...

We conference - I'm the linesman on the play and state that he would have definitely gained the first down if it weren't for the pole of the chain tripping the running back. I thought a TD was NOT definite or probable given the other players downfield.

So we discuss what to do - replay the down? 3rd and 25? Treat it like an inadvertent whistle 3rd and 4 from the 49? Give the visiting team a 1st and 10 from the 45?

We settled that the fairest thing was 1st and 10 from the 45. Home team coach agreed as well.

Visiting team eventually lost 14-7 anyways.

[ncwingman]

Yes. 1 time.

1:00 left 4th quarter. Visiting team losing 14-7. 3rd and 25 from their 30.
Ball is handed off to running back who breaks his run to the left side (visiting team's sidelines).... a mass of people chasing him, but he has clear empty sidelines at least the next 40 yards. He gains 10 yards, the home team chain crew is worried about getting hit, so they drop the chains like they're told to...

About 2 feet of the first orange pole of the chains slides onto the field as the chain is dropped. The running back trips on the chains, stumbles, bumbling, stumbling, is then hit, and falls down at the 49. A 21 yard gain...

We conference - I'm the linesman on the play and state that he would have definitely gained the first down if it weren't for the pole of the chain tripping the running back. I thought a TD was NOT definite or probable given the other players downfield.

So we discuss what to do - replay the down? 3rd and 25? Treat it like an inadvertent whistle 3rd and 4 from the 49? Give the visiting team a 1st and 10 from the 45?

We settled that the fairest thing was 1st and 10 from the 45. Home team coach agreed as well.

Visiting team eventually lost 14-7 anyways.

I still wouldn't call that a 9-10-5 Travesty... that's more of a 1-1-6 "Situation not covered by the rules".

Unless you're saying that the chain crew did that on purpose...

[CalhounLJ]

Exactly. That's a great example of a situation not specifically covered by the rules, but I don't think anyone was trying to make a mockery of the game in that situation.
Let me post some synonyms of travesty to clear it up a little:
travesty
noun
a travesty of justice: perversion of, distortion of, corruption of, misrepresentation of, poor imitation of, poor substitute for, mockery of, parody of, caricature of; farce of, charade of, pantomime of, sham of, spoof of; informal apology for, (poor) excuse for.

to me it sounds like making a travesty of the game is bringing embarrassment to the game, making a fool out of the game or something of that nature.

The reason I bring it up is because many times on this forum I have read about unusual plays, or the bending of the rules, or something of that nature, and almost every time somebody tries to invoke the travesty rule. I'm trying to get an understanding of what a real travesty would look like.

[FLAHL]

How about this as a travesty?

A is up 28-0 and wanting to pad their RBs stats. They score and on the kickoff, A players make no attempt to tackle the returner. Now A gets the ball back and can continue to feed the RB. Is that a travesty?

What if A scores again, and does he same thing?

[bigjohn]

https://kaarre.wordpress.com/tag/touchdown/

all depends on motive I guess