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Author Topic: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays  (Read 27237 times)

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Offline TXMike

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NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« on: December 14, 2011, 05:27:44 AM »
What is the NFHS rule re when Team A (kickers) can block Team B (receivers) on a free kick?  Do they have to wait until they (kickers)  are  eligible to touch the ball before they can block?
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Offline Ump33

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 05:49:50 AM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 14, 2011, 05:27:44 AM
What is the NFHS rule re when Team A (kickers) can block Team B (receivers) on a free kick?  Do they have to wait until they (kickers)  are  eligible to touch the ball before they can block?

Provided the blocks are legal and not Kick Catch Interference, there are no restrictions on when the Kicking Team can block the Receiving Team.
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mbyron

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 08:59:01 AM »
Quote from: Ump33 on December 14, 2011, 05:49:50 AM
Provided the blocks are legal and not Kick Catch Interference, there are no restrictions on when the Kicking Team can block the Receiving Team.
True, and since an onside kick, when done properly, cannot be caught, KCI generally doesn't enter the equation.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 09:03:23 AM »
Seems a little strange.  I thought NFHS rules generally were more safety conscious than NCAA yet this is a real safety issue and why the NCAA rules were changed to outlaw the early blocks
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mbyron

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 09:14:50 AM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 14, 2011, 09:03:23 AM
Seems a little strange.  I thought NFHS rules generally were more safety conscious than NCAA yet this is a real safety issue and why the NCAA rules were changed to outlaw the early blocks
As a general rule, you're quite correct: NFHS tries to make safety a priority. But another priority is to ensure uniformity of enforcement, and that's a tricky rule to enforce. So I expect NFHS figures that (a) not a lot of kids get injured on this play, and (b) it would be much harder to enforce, thus no rule.
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Offline Curious

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 10:02:12 AM »
Quote from: mbyron on December 14, 2011, 09:14:50 AM
As a general rule, you're quite correct: NFHS tries to make safety a priority. But another priority is to ensure uniformity of enforcement, and that's a tricky rule to enforce. So I expect NFHS figures that (a) not a lot of kids get injured on this play, and (b) it would be much harder to enforce, thus no rule.

I certainly would agree with this - especially since we have only 4 or 5 man crews....
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 02:48:47 PM »
If I follow what the NCAA rule restriction is, it provides a 10 yard head start and full head of steam to the kicking team approaching the kicked ball.  Allowing blocking by the receivers in the neutral zone may very well have been done to negate this advantage to the kickers for the safety of the receiving team.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 02:53:49 PM »
Other way around actually.  NCAA - The Kickers are prohibited from getting that 10 yard head of steam and then blocking in front of the ball.   NFHS permits that.  That is concussion city waiting to happen.
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 03:05:04 PM »
Nothing in either set of rules prevents the receiving team from getting a 10 yard head of steam either.  Just start on your own 40 yard line and run forward at the kick.

Yes, NFHS are usually more safety conscious.  But I'm not sure the prohibition on blocking in the NCAA is a safety issue.  I think the rule is more for competitive balance.  Under NFHS rules, we teach the kicker to put the ball in a certain spot, and teach the blockers to block ahead of the ball and to block R players away from the ball, and the kicker is responsible for falling on the ball.  The blocks aren't particularly violent, but if done right, they are effective.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 03:12:04 PM »
The NCAA rule was changed in 1990 specifically because of coach complaints about injuries to receiving team players.  Source : "Anatomy of a Game"
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 04:14:32 PM »
Don't be shocked if the Federation tweaks the rule for 2012. It might just start with requiring at least 4 on either side of the ball, but could also include blocking restrictions. I agree it would be next to impossible to officiate blocking restrictions with a 5 man crew.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 04:19:18 PM »
Yet we do it routinely in Texas and Mass.
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 05:13:11 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 14, 2011, 04:19:18 PM
Yet we do it routinely in Texas and Mass.

Well, if this video is any indication, not well!   ;D
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2011, 06:43:19 PM »
We get it sometimes.  As always, ignore the commentators.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64yUCqrhFU  aWaRd


Best regards,

Brad
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Offline TXMike

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2011, 07:21:08 PM »
Quote from: Atlanta Blue on December 14, 2011, 05:13:11 PM
Well, if this video is any indication, not well!   ;D

Well played sir !    aWaRd

Would it help if I mentioned most of the guys in the missed call video are college officials who just happen to work Texas HS ball as opposed to guys who work only Texas HS ball?
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2011, 07:47:25 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 14, 2011, 07:21:08 PM
Well played sir !    aWaRd

Would it help if I mentioned most of the guys in the missed call video are college officials who just happen to work Texas HS ball as opposed to guys who work only Texas HS ball?

It's missed at college levels, too.  With all the focus on the ball going ten yards, who is watching the blocks that aren't on the line?

Actually, I would like to see it eliminated, or modified.  I would like to allow blocks to occur beyond the 10 yard restraining line whether the ball has gone 10 yards or not.  It wouldn't make any safety differences to the current rule.  Players beyond the restraining line should expect to be blocked.

Most onside kicks fail, changing the rule MIGHT change the odds SLIGHTLY.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2011, 08:01:21 PM »
Also note the coach/referee conference starts inside of the numbers before the 'ol coach starts his rain dance and the white hat decides the conference might be better suited for the sideline, rather than 10 yards inbounds.  :sTiR:
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2011, 06:12:39 AM »
Some of those rule change proposals were in the recent NFHS questionaire.

Just another change in search of a problem.  I might see two onside kicks a season and I've never seen a block that was any more dangerous than any other play.  If the full head of steam theory is in play here, we should disallow blocking on all kicks and long runs.

Just as I believed when I umpired Little League that youth coaches shouldn't be allowed to watch Braves games, I believe HS coaches should be banned from watching CFB games.  Only way I figure these proposals get brought up.
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Offline mnref

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 10:50:42 AM »
We went to the NCAA rule this year in MN regarding formations (4 on each side of kicker) and blocking during free kicks.
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Offline NTXRef

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2011, 12:06:55 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 14, 2011, 03:12:04 PM
The NCAA rule was changed in 1990 specifically because of coach complaints about injuries to receiving team players.  Source : "Anatomy of a Game"

That's interesting that this was viewed as a safety/injury issue.  I would have thought that it was put in to prevent an unfair advantage.  Without it, the K team can just wipe every body out while the kicker dribbled then pounced once it went 10 yards (with no R around).
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jjseikel

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2011, 12:30:20 PM »
Quote from: TxSkyBolt on December 14, 2011, 06:43:19 PM
We get it sometimes.  As always, ignore the commentators.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64yUCqrhFU  aWaRd


Best regards,

Brad

Is that the correct signal for an illegal block?
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Offline jg-me

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 12:48:10 PM »
For this particular foul that is the correct signal. If the blocking technique itself violated another rule the applicable signal would be used.
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2011, 01:13:48 PM »
And that's the problem with not having the R miked at this field.  Everyone in the stands and in the TV booth were confused (and mad!)

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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2011, 01:24:59 PM »
Quote from: Jaybird on December 16, 2011, 12:30:20 PM
Is that the correct signal for an illegal block?

I realize this was a TX game and therefore NCAA rules, but this is on a NFHS board.

In FED, no, that is not the correct signal for Illegal Blocking.  But in FED, this wouldn't be an Illegal Block.
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Offline Bob M.

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Re: NFHS on Blocking During Onside Kick Plays
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2011, 03:47:41 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 14, 2011, 09:03:23 AM
Seems a little strange.  I thought NFHS rules generally were more safety conscious than NCAA yet this is a real safety issue and why the NCAA rules were changed to outlaw the early blocks

REPLY: There's another similar head-scratcher when you hear that the low portion of a chop block is "below the knee" in Fed, but "at the thigh or below in NCAA." Which is safer?
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Bob M.
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