Terrible Incident in Texas

[Cowman52]

I'm thinking we all have a different view on things come tomorrow and Friday. 

[JasonTX]

Blind Zebra - I am certain that if these players had intended to target the Head Linesman they would have gotten him. The position of the official is irrelevant to what happened.

Exactly.  I have video of each position where the official gets rolled.  It would not be that hard to make something appear to be accidental.  The Referee position even gets rolled on changes of possession.

[tothemax96]

I worked a sub varsity game today. As I walked out there in my Stripes Shirt.  I felt the fans were looking at us differently, in a good way.  Maybe realizing we are Human, just like they are. . I Don't know if it was just my imagination, but it kinda felt good.  No yelling by the coaches, just some comments calmly relayed to us. Let's go out this week and do our jobs.  The job we all LOVE.  Being on that Football field, in all the action. Knowing that we are there for a good reason. For the Kids, for our crew, for the LOVE OF THE GAME.....

[TexDoc]

I worked a game last year for probably the most successful high school football program in our area.  On a punt play, I threw a flag on this team for running into the kicker.  Two assistant coaches started cursing and saying what a horrible call it was.  On top of that his players were out of control and not listening to our warnings the whole game .  After the play I walked up to the head coach and asked him "coach are you just going to let those assistants talk to me that way?"   He was certainly standing close enough to hear their every word.   What he said floored me.  "I can't control them and I sure can't control the players.    I'm doing the best I can."  My response, "coach if you can't control them then don't ever pick me again because it isn't my job to get them under control, it's yours."   Well, he didn't pick my crew this year and it sure didn't hurt me feelings.   

Had a game earlier this year where there were several players from both teams that intentionally tucked their pants at the knee under so that they didn't come close to covering their knees.  We told both head coaches and trainers and they didn't do anything about it.  They looked the other way and waited for us, the officials, to be the bad guys and correct it.  Maybe if we all started charging timeouts it might fix this problem.  But why won't the coaches help?   

[Rulesman]

But why won't the coaches help?

It might be because it sounds like most officials in Texas are afraid of the coaches. The fact that you stood up to one who obviously doesn't need to hold the position he holds tells me you're not one of them. If every official on every crew took the position that we're not going to tolerate this stuff anymore just might be a start to getting your situation changed. Otherwise, it's business as usual and you might as well accept that and move on.

[bama_stripes]

Me too - the flag would have been in the air as soon as he told the B he was dung, much less the rest of the crew.  Anything that starts with you and is followed by an adjective is going to draw one, every time.  And I have no doubts that the VHSL would support it.

100% agree.

The only way to change this "culture" is to penalize such behavior EVERY time it occurs.  Otherwise, we deserve what we get.

[cwag]

It might be because it sounds like most officials in Texas are afraid of the coaches. The fact that you stood up to one who obviously doesn't need to hold the position he holds tells me you're not one of them. If every official on every crew took the position that we're not going to tolerate this stuff anymore just might be a start to getting your situation changed. Otherwise, it's business as usual and you might as well accept that and move on.

This is spot on!!  As soon as our feet hit that turf, we have to take control.  We cannot expect the coaches to do it.  They prove to us time and again they are not interested in doing that.  Once we start flagging everything that happens after the whistle and kicking players out of the game, they will understand that we have had enough and are going to take control.

Don't be in a hurry for this to get resolved.  The players will be found guilty, but they deserve full due process as would any official that behave badly.  When our members do something wrong, chapter officials start the ball rolling as does the state office, and it takes time to get all of the relevant facts, assemble committees for hearings and finally decide on appropriate action.  I am mad as hell about the incident, but give all involved the time necessary to do the job right and not leave any stone unturned.

The video speaks for itself.  TASO should review the HUDL film and evaluate the work of the officials just like any other game.  That is how TASO should be involved in the matter and it is proper due dilligence.  These two kids will suffer some stiff consequences and the asst coach will be selling used cars from now on.  The racial slur issue will go away easily if some simple thought is put to it.  If any official made a racial comment to a player, it wouldn't take two plays for the coaches to find out and they would be in the middle of the field having a heated conversation with the white hat.  And going back to the asst coach...apparently he was only concerned with the officials cheating them with bad calls.

[HAshleyTX]

100% agree.

The only way to change this "culture" is to penalize such behavior EVERY time it occurs.  Otherwise, we deserve what we get.

Your statement indicates that we own a certain amount of blame for the situation we face.  "Culture" is a combination of all environment surrounding the students and coaches.  I submit that WE DO the things you suggested on a consistent basis but once again, our authority is granted by the rules of the game...not through any significant amount of influence and that influence is ALWAYS over powered by the influence of the coaches, school administration and home life.  In the MF vs John Jay game, the officials had already exercised the use of the rules to address issues and it still did not prevent the players from assaulting the official.  In a twisted way, their judicious application of the rules actually led to the assault.  Here is where the problem lies.  The "culture" has shifted to the point that any amount of authority or influence we have in the game results in possible physical retaliation.  This is a behavior problem that was not tolerated when you and I were playing HS football.  Our generation wouldn't even think of doing something like this because we were taught how to behave and not by game officials.

This is the dangerous current just beneath the surface and it's about to pull us all under unless those in position to correct it take responsibility to do so.

[TexDoc]

It really all gets back to coaches being able to select their officials here in Texas.  If you stand up to them in a way they do not like, they all talk and you wind up sitting home on a Friday night.  We've all learned to be very, very tolerant with varsity coaches, to the point we allow them to get away with too much.  If that were to change, I think the culture of who should be in control of the games changes.  But, I don't ever see that going away.

Having worked in two different chapters in Texas, one with a long-standing coaches selection process, and one that does not allow coaches to select and assigns all games, I can say there is a distinct difference in how the officials interact with coaches.  Simply put, if there is little worry about coaches not selecting your crew, there is less worry about doing the job you need to do.

[Curious]

I must say that this whole "coaches picking the officials" thing is, in large part a major contributing factor to the issues that seem to exist in Texas HS football.  Before you jump all over me, I'm not "indicting" all officials OR coaches' but, as an outsider with contact with a few Texas officials, it seems that the time has come for Texas to join the rest of the world.

Officials need to be assigned by independent Assigners with no stake in the outcome of contests. That's not to say that coaches shouldn't have some input into the rating of officials; but to select who works what game leads to the "fear" factor which has appeared within this and other similar discussions about Texas officiating.

It also perpetuates the "good old boys" atmosphere which not only finds officials past their expiration dates working games they can no longer handle, but holds back good younger officials - or discourages them altogether from continuing this avocation.

As long as the inmates run the asylum, the atmosphere of "fear of coaches rejecting them" cannot NOT affect the quality of officiating in Texas or anywhere else.  Coaches seem to get away with almost everything - from profanity directed at officials to, dare I say it, directing players to take out officials who make a "bad call".

Enough already!      

[VALJ]

Having worked in two different chapters in Texas, one with a long-standing coaches selection process, and one that does not allow coaches to select and assigns all games, I can say there is a distinct difference in how the officials interact with coaches.  Simply put, if there is little worry about coaches not selecting your crew, there is less worry about doing the job you need to do.

As an official who has always been assigned, rather than selected by the coach, I don't know for sure that coaches can "scratch" an official (though I'm pretty sure that it happens some).  But even if a coach scratches me, he's still going to get someone assigned by our association, rather than being able to pick and choose an official.  As an official here, I'm not DIRECTLY beholden to a school to worry about whether a particular game or even a particular call will cost me future assignments. If I'm doing my job correctly, even if there's a conflict with one given team that causes things to get that bad, I'll still be working somewhere.  I wonder how much the culture in areas where the officials are assigned by an agent not directly working for the school differs from areas where the officials have to negotiate with a school directly.

[HLinNC]

So much has been said in the past two pages that I agree with.  I don't want to develop into an anti-Texas thread but I remember the debate a few years ago between the state governing body and the state officials association, which appears to be a somewhat different arrangement than most states.

We in NC appear to be similarly organized as VA.  The state athletic association runs our playoff system and has a state level supervisor of officials.  Each region has a supervisor that reports to him but are independent businesses in how they manage and book their officials for their region.  None of us have to worry about negotiating contracts directly with schools.  As VA said, if I'm marked off at a particular school, I'm still going to be working somewhere on any given Friday night.

It would seem to me that Texas might want to begin to look at changing some parts of their system to make officials less beholden to individual schools or coaches.  One particular post about the head coach having no control over his assistants cursing at an official was maddening.  Whether he can control them or not, they are getting flagged for cursing and ejected if bad enough.  If an official is too dependent on that kind of system to worry about getting games to not take immediate corrective action beyond asking a coach to tone his assistants down, then perhaps walking away from the "business" is the proper alternative.

Sadly, much like most big media events, the spotlight on the issue will subside and we'll go back to being the "bad guys" again very quickly, just like the NFL guys when they came back from the lockout.

[TexDoc]

HLinNC, it is a cultural thing here in Texas, you just do not flag coaches.  You might in a sub varsity game, but it just doesn't happen in varsity contests, or the official winds up getting blamed, or he decides to sit at home on Friday nights.

Out of all of the UIL varsity football contests last year, which I estimate is around 5,800 games throughout the regular season, I would guess there are somewhere around 30 or less flags thrown on coaches for behavior.  The UIL probably sees that as an indicator that there must not be a problem if .5% of all games have a flag thrown on a coach. 

If we all took a stand, it would work and things would change, but the coaches selection process perpetuates this problem.  The UIL direct has said that it will never change.  But then again, he compares officials to Barney Fife when speaking to groups of coaches.  That flag we carry is akin to Barney's one bullet in his view.

[Curious]

HLinNC, it is a cultural thing here in Texas, you just do not flag coaches.  You might in a sub varsity game, but it just doesn't happen in varsity contests, or the official winds up getting blamed, or he decides to sit at home on Friday nights.

Out of all of the UIL varsity football contests last year, which I estimate is around 5,800 games throughout the regular season, I would guess there are somewhere around 30 or less flags thrown on coaches for behavior.  The UIL probably sees that as an indicator that there must not be a problem if .5% of all games have a flag thrown on a coach. 

If we all took a stand, it would work and things would change, but the coaches selection process perpetuates this problem. The UIL direct has said that it will never change.  But then again, he compares officials to Barney Fife when speaking to groups of coaches.  That flag we carry is akin to Barney's one bullet in his view.

I rest my case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Legacy Zebra]

Maybe it's different in other parts of the state, but I'm in Texas and have no qualms about flagging a coach. That's probably, like has already been stated in this thread, because I don't rely on coaches to pick me for assignments. Our games are assigned by the secretary of the chapter, not by coaches' picks. Just last year my crew had 4 flags on coaches for unsportsmanlike conduct in varsity games. One from L, one from H, and two from me at R. 3 out of 4 of those solved the problem almost instantly. The fourth coach got to have a meeting with our president and secretary as well as his AD and Superintendent to discuss why his actions were inappropriate and how they were not going to be tolerated. We got full support from our chapter board on every one of those flags. And we don't have to worry about where we'll be working next week. Whether it's for one of those schools or not, we'll have a game.

[Curious]

Maybe it's different in other parts of the state, but I'm in Texas and have no qualms about flagging a coach. That's probably, like has already been stated in this thread, because I don't rely on coaches to pick me for assignments. Our games are assigned by the secretary of the chapter, not by coaches' picks.

So how does your area operate under different rules; and, if it obviously is a better mousetrap, why is it not adapted everywhere else?

Just last year my crew had 4 flags on coaches for unsportsmanlike conduct in varsity games. One from L, one from H, and two from me at R. 3 out of 4 of those solved the problem almost instantly. The fourth coach got to have a meeting with our president and secretary as well as his AD and Superintendent to discuss why his actions were inappropriate and how they were not going to be tolerated. We got full support from our chapter board on every one of those flags.

And well you should!  So explain to us the actual role/purpose of the UIL and TASO.  Sounds unnecessarily cumbersome to say the least....

And we don't have to worry about where we'll be working next week. Whether it's for one of those schools or not, we'll have a game.

[prosec34]

If a coach curses you, flag him. If he does it again, flag him again and eject him.

Reading some of the complaints on this thread, I think some officials need to review their rule book and see the ways it allows them to take control of the game.

[TexDoc]

We operate under NCAA rules which do not call for the ejection of coaches.  So, we don't eject coaches.

[HAshleyTX]

If a coach curses you, flag him. If he does it again, flag him again and eject him.

Reading some of the complaints on this thread, I think some officials need to review their rule book and see the ways it allows them to take control of the game.

NCAA Football Rules Committee
Adopted February 2009
• After reviewing a number of plays involving unsportsmanlike
conduct, the committee is firm in its support of the unsportsmanlike
conduct rules as they currently are written and officiated. Many of
these fouls deal with players who inappropriately draw attention
to themselves in a premeditated, excessive or prolonged manner.
Players should be taught the discipline that reinforces football as
a team game.
• The rules committee reminds head coaches of their responsibility
for the behavior of their players before and after, as well as
during, the game. Players must be cautioned against pre-game
unsportsmanlike conduct on the field that can lead to confrontation
between the teams. Such action can lead to penalties enforced on
the opening kickoff, possibly including disqualification of players.
Repeated occurrence of such unsportsmanlike behavior by a team
may result in punitive action by the conference against the head
coach and his institution.

This pretty much sums up who is responsible for behavior, ie "control" of these players.  I don't know where you officiate or how long you've been doing it but the officials are not the "boss" we're not 'in charge" and we're not the spotlight of this event.  In my rule book it says we'll have "control" of the sidelines and that coaches should support us with "controlling" players with regard to talking to opponents.  Don't see anywhere that says we "control" the game.  perhaps you could share that?

[GAHSUMPIRE]

After a brief internet search, I found this document that TASO published. It was on Tyler Refs, but since it was from TASO, I assume it applies statewide.

http://www.tylerrefs.org/documents/2011TASO7OfficialMechanicsManual06_11.pdf

In the OFFICIATING REQUISITES section it states:

COURAGE: A smooth running game suddenly can get out of hand as a result of an overly
officious attitude toward players and coaches, or an undue laxity of enforcement. Conversations
with a coach or a player should always be courteous without sacrificing dignity. If something is
said or done which warrants a penalty, penalization should be done unobtrusively and without
dramatization. A game is kept under control by proper administration of the rules, which can be
best accomplished if no impression of militant supervision is created.

Since we as officials administer the rules, that would mean, according to TASO, that we have the ability (and responsibility) to keep the game under control.

TACT, BUT NOT SUBMISSION: Tact is necessary but should never be a justification for retreat
from a position properly taken or a decision correctly rendered.

[HAshleyTX]

Refer to two post previous and you'll see my quote to that effect.  Our authority is granted by the rules and we are there to see that the game is administered according to said rules.  In those rules you'll once again, see who is responsible for control of players behavior...not us.

[GAHSUMPIRE]

Refer to two post previous and you'll see my quote to that effect.  Our authority is granted by the rules and we are there to see that the game is administered according to said rules.  In those rules you'll once again, see who is responsible for control of players behavior...not us.

You also asked "Don't see anywhere that says we "control" the game.  perhaps you could share that?"

I will then submit this:

ARTICLE 12. OFFICIALS' “ABCs”
A - Ability to handle players in firm, fair, and friendly fashion.
B - Knowledge, understanding and correct application of the rules.
C - Knowledge of an adherence to approved mechanics

Doesn't A the "ability to handle" imply at least the attempt to control?

[HAshleyTX]

GAHSUMPIRE

You do know we use the NCAA rule book right?  Is article 12 you reference in NFHS book?

[JasonTX]

HLinNC, it is a cultural thing here in Texas, you just do not flag coaches.  You might in a sub varsity game, but it just doesn't happen in varsity contests, or the official winds up getting blamed, or he decides to sit at home on Friday nights.

Out of all of the UIL varsity football contests last year, which I estimate is around 5,800 games throughout the regular season, I would guess there are somewhere around 30 or less flags thrown on coaches for behavior.  The UIL probably sees that as an indicator that there must not be a problem if .5% of all games have a flag thrown on a coach. 

If we all took a stand, it would work and things would change, but the coaches selection process perpetuates this problem.  The UIL direct has said that it will never change.  But then again, he compares officials to Barney Fife when speaking to groups of coaches.  That flag we carry is akin to Barney's one bullet in his view.

If a coach scratches an official here is my response, "Coach, in 3 weeks from now that crew is scheduled to work your game again.  I will gladly honor your request to scratch them, but we will not have another crew available to cover your game."  Guess what, the scratch is removed and the crew works his game in 3 weeks and by then he has already forgotten all about that crew.

With that said, I do agree we allow more than what we should.  Case in point, I was working a peewee game, where coaches have no input nor can they scratch.  First coach popped off about an apparent missed personal foul and I immediately flagged him.  Don't yell at me.  In baseball we have a rule that judgement calls are not discussed.  If you complain about a pitch, fair or foul, safe or out, you get restricted to the dugout and do it again you get ejected.  That's standard procedure and every coach knows it.  We don't get scratched either because every coach and every official knows that's the way it is.

[Etref]

HLinNC, it is a cultural thing here in Texas, you just do not flag coaches.  You might in a sub varsity game, but it just doesn't happen in varsity contests, or the official winds up getting blamed, or he decides to sit at home on Friday nights.

Out of all of the UIL varsity football contests last year, which I estimate is around 5,800 games throughout the regular season, I would guess there are somewhere around 30 or less flags thrown on coaches for behavior.  The UIL probably sees that as an indicator that there must not be a problem if .5% of all games have a flag thrown on a coach. 

If we all took a stand, it would work and things would change, but the coaches selection process perpetuates this problem.  The UIL direct has said that it will never change.  But then again, he compares officials to Barney Fife when speaking to groups of coaches.  That flag we carry is akin to Barney's one bullet in his view.

Doc, I call BS or horse hockey or whatever it gets translated to be!

You can and must flag the coaches at times when they get out of line. I didn't give a darn if they picked me again (retired now). Most of them after you flag them will calm down an come to their senses and actually apologize. The ones that don't you don't want to work for anyway. You should only do it needed, but their are times when you must (you with an adjective that follows, sidelines,etc)
If you let it go, you create a problem not only for the next crew but for yourself when you have them again.

I lived by the creed I may not be here next Friday but I will be somewhere.

Just my $.02 and now I go back under my rock