Author Topic: Terrible Incident in Texas  (Read 110229 times)

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Offline TexDoc

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2015, 03:47:18 PM »
There has been a long-standing culture in Texas that officials don't flag coaches, period.  The general feeling is that coaches are making a living and we are just doing an avocation, and we should always ignore or work-through bad behavior by coaches.  I've seen times where an official flagged a coach and then later the official was blamed for just not handling the situation correctly, or said the wrong thing, or should have been more tolerant.  Many times, as it appears that it is becoming in this situation, the victim is being blamed for the cause or has ownership in part of the problem.

In the end, we mostly don't flag coaches or report them because it just isn't worth it.  This is what has resulted.

I'd like to see a neutral party or UIL representative do random audits of the actions of coaches and how sidelines act.  I think it would really open their eyes.  But, I don't think it is a culture that will ever change, or change very easily.  Officials are just there to be made fun of and berated.  It's been that way and tolerated for years and I think many of us have just come to accept it.  If you try to be the Lone Ranger, you won't last a minute because you won't get picked.


Offline TxJim

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2015, 04:09:49 PM »
I've seen times where an official flagged a coach and then later the official was blamed for just not handling the situation correctly, or said the wrong thing, or should have been more tolerant.  Many times, as it appears that it is becoming in this situation, the victim is being blamed for the cause or has ownership in part of the problem.

You can imagine what this incident does for us to attract and retain quality people to officiating.

Couldn't blame a spouse for saying to her husband who was thinking about officiating, "No way!"


 
Sportsmanship is contagious - Let's have an epidemic!

Offline Welpe

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2015, 04:11:01 PM »
There has been a long-standing culture in Texas that officials don't flag coaches, period.  The general feeling is that coaches are making a living and we are just doing an avocation, and we should always ignore or work-through bad behavior by coaches.  I've seen times where an official flagged a coach and then later the official was blamed for just not handling the situation correctly, or said the wrong thing, or should have been more tolerant.  Many times, as it appears that it is becoming in this situation, the victim is being blamed for the cause or has ownership in part of the problem.

In the end, we mostly don't flag coaches or report them because it just isn't worth it.  This is what has resulted.

Could not have said it better!  :bOW

Offline mishatx

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2015, 04:49:40 PM »
You can imagine what this incident does for us to attract and retain quality people to officiating.

Couldn't blame a spouse for saying to her husband who was thinking about officiating, "No way!"

I took this season off to spend more time with my family (and a very big part of that decision was sideline behavior).

This happening to a former crewmate will make it that much more difficult to look my family in the eye and tell them I want to go back on the field.

Offline mishatx

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2015, 04:56:34 PM »
There has been a long-standing culture in Texas that officials don't flag coaches, period.  The general feeling is that coaches are making a living and we are just doing an avocation, and we should always ignore or work-through bad behavior by coaches.  I've seen times where an official flagged a coach and then later the official was blamed for just not handling the situation correctly, or said the wrong thing, or should have been more tolerant.  Many times, as it appears that it is becoming in this situation, the victim is being blamed for the cause or has ownership in part of the problem.

Coach your kids, stay out of the white, and let me do my job.

There were times I'd be thrilled to settle for one of the three. 

Offline TxGrayhat

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Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2015, 05:03:19 PM »
The Superintendent just said the kids need to know that two wrongs don't make it right . Meaning the official said racial slurs which resulted in retaliation by the players.  I will not believe that official said any racial slurs period.   When is our statement going to be made public ? Or are we going to just let this lie to be repeated so many times it starts being believed?
If you don't see the Football Don't Blow the Whistle!!!

Offline rsquare

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2015, 05:03:41 PM »
I am just as guilty about coaches.
Friday night coach yells to BJ  You're chicken----to make that call. All you officials are chicken----. I told HC and coach that yelled out if you want to blare out something general fine but now that was wording being directed personally to officials and should be warranted flagging. To my surprise, he apologized.
and behaved accordingly remainder of contest. On the other hand it could have gone on but glad it didn't. I always hear from the Chapter each year that coaches are "under pressure for their job". We are all under job pressure. Those actions  (profanity, etc) are not permissible in classroom or even in our professional vocations. Why do we as an association continually tolerate and allow such behavior. Profanity in open society is not permissible. It is time TASO takes a bona fide charge to lead the directive to hold not only officials BUT ALL PARTICPANTS in the contest to the highest degree of integrity and decorum. Unruly behavior and foul language not normally permissible in our day to day societal living should not be encouraged, tolerated or slighted off. There needs to be acceptable standards of conduct. If it cannot be said or done in the classroom surely it should not be allowed on the extended classroom - the field, court, etc.
We need to as an association make this a priority. Coaches, staff and officials must all lead by example.
 I'm down from soapbox.... pi1eOn

Offline TxGrayhat

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Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2015, 05:05:01 PM »
I'm curious is this board considered social media?
If you don't see the Football Don't Blow the Whistle!!!

Offline yarnnelg

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2015, 05:57:40 PM »
Then TASO needs to put a representative in front of combined Associations and take note of your frustrations. They need to be reminded that It's tough to encourage new blood into the brotherhood and tougher to keep them in place when the governing body turns their back and refuses to support them. At that point these overpaid Administrators can don stripes and stand the line to incure the wrath and abuse experienced on the fields from Jon Gruden wanna be's.

I rarely throw flags on coaches but I am not above nailing a coach whose voice I feel can be heard in the stands enough to blush the female and youth attending to enjoy a contest and not learn new four letter words or the verbal abuse directed toward officials.

You guys need better state legislation. The year after the Florida Law was passed, police escorted us on and off the field. All fans were presented with a copy of the new law. Coaches and players understood the consequences. Shortly after the new law passed, we were being escorted off the field at halftime and heard a Mother screaming at us because little Johnnie had just been legally trucked on the last play. She thought Johnnie had been mistreated. The Officer beside me excused himself because he needed to explain the Florida assault law to her. By mid year our police escorts subsided. I always had the feeling that if we didn't satisfy the masses we might be the ones cuffed and headed to see the judge, hoping the judge didn't bet on football.

Offline SD_Casey

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2015, 06:22:33 PM »


In Marble Falls, Texas this past weekend, an officiating nightmare took place. It took place and nobody was sleeping. Fortunately someone was videotaping the game. Without any room for equivocation, that video shows two players from John Jay High School in San Antonio purposely and with malice physically assaulted back judge, Robert Watts during the final moments of the game. He was viscously and without warning knocked to the ground by a Jay player and then, while prostrate on the turf, was helmet-speared by a fellow Jay teammate.

Robert is a long-time member of the National Association of Sports Officials. That fact energizes us to take a stand on his behalf. But, make no mistake, had Robert not been a member of NASO, we would be taking to the ramparts in his defense and in that of all men, women and young people who officiate our games.

What occurred that night on that field is unacceptable and we in the officiating community will not accept it. NASO has taken steps to ensure that Robert is provided the full benefits of NASO insurance, legal and consultation services. Whatever course of action he intends to take in order to have his assault properly redressed, NASO will stand in support of him.

NASO president, Barry Mano, has been a frequent and often quoted media interview about this horror. He has presented NASO's firm belief, backed unanimously by the NASO board of directors, that commensurate consequences must result from this act, wherever they may lead. Certainly calling to account the two players will be just a starting point. An investigation by the proper authorities and jurisdictions is underway now. The facts and the broader truths will be of interest to all of us in the officiating world.

NASO works in partnership with the Texas Association of Sports Officials (TASO) and the University Interscholastic League (UIL) in a number of officiating programs. The three organizations embrace the belief that assaultive behavior against sports officials will not be tolerated nor accepted at any level.

Just received this in my email. Thought I would put it up here for any non-NASO members to read.


Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2015, 08:30:11 PM »

Just received this in my email. Thought I would put it up here for any non-NASO members to read.
Thanks for posting this Casey.  It would sure be nice if TASO would make a public statement!!

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2015, 08:33:12 PM »
I am just as guilty about coaches.
Friday night coach yells to BJ  You're chicken----to make that call. All you officials are chicken----. I told HC and coach that yelled out if you want to blare out something general fine but now that was wording being directed personally to officials and should be warranted flagging. To my surprise, he apologized.
and behaved accordingly remainder of contest. On the other hand it could have gone on but glad it didn't. I always hear from the Chapter each year that coaches are "under pressure for their job". We are all under job pressure. Those actions  (profanity, etc) are not permissible in classroom or even in our professional vocations. Why do we as an association continually tolerate and allow such behavior. Profanity in open society is not permissible. It is time TASO takes a bona fide charge to lead the directive to hold not only officials BUT ALL PARTICPANTS in the contest to the highest degree of integrity and decorum. Unruly behavior and foul language not normally permissible in our day to day societal living should not be encouraged, tolerated or slighted off. There needs to be acceptable standards of conduct. If it cannot be said or done in the classroom surely it should not be allowed on the extended classroom - the field, court, etc.
We need to as an association make this a priority. Coaches, staff and officials must all lead by example.
 I'm down from soapbox.... pi1eOn

We tell our guys to draw a line in the sand and when they get within 10 foot of that line it needs to be addressed.  We put up with way too much.  Coach the players and disregard the officials and their calls. 

Offline texref (TX)

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2015, 09:17:49 PM »
TASO published a statement early today.

http://www.taso.org/data/news/796/TASO Press Release 9-8-2015.pdf

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2015, 09:41:25 PM »
Yes they did. Exactly what I was talking about.

Offline TxJim

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2015, 09:57:05 PM »
TASO published a statement early today.

http://www.taso.org/data/news/796/TASO Press Release 9-8-2015.pdf

Oh, was there an email sent?  I guess we just haven't received it yet.
Sportsmanship is contagious - Let's have an epidemic!

Offline GAHSUMPIRE

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2015, 10:00:59 PM »
I took this season off to spend more time with my family (and a very big part of that decision was sideline behavior).

This happening to a former crewmate will make it that much more difficult to look my family in the eye and tell them I want to go back on the field.

I have taken a the last couple of years off from high school as well for some of the same reasons (family comes first), and as one of my old white hats used to say, my vocation kept getting in the way of my avocation. I miss the hell out of it, but I am somewhat leery of returning as in my last year, I had a coach charge at me from the sideline and threaten my life. I've had people yell at me and threaten me before. this one was different. He MEANT it.

I love football, I love the camaraderie with my crew, and there is nothing better than the feeling I get at about 7:29 on Friday night just before the ball is kicked. And the extra money is nice too, but I just don't know if that feeling, or that money is worth the risk anymore.

It shouldn't be this way.

ECILLJ

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2015, 09:46:05 AM »
I am just as guilty about coaches.
Friday night coach yells to BJ  You're chicken----to make that call. All you officials are chicken----. 

 :!# This is a real eye opener. If this type of behavior occurred during a game in Illinois that our crew officiated, an unsportsmanlike flag  ^flag would be immediate and we would have full support of the IHSA. Our state leadership would not be happy  >:( if we condoned this type of behavior during a game. The coaches and officials are reminded at every IHSA clinic and on every IHSA publication that the playing field is an extension of the classroom.

Many years ago an underclass coach used the "chicken dung" line (twice) towards our crew. He soon found himself on the bus waiting for his team. He also missed participating with the varsity team in their first round playoff game. (IHSA rule)  P_S




Offline kevinlc

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2015, 10:16:05 AM »
Looks like a team that was out of control to me. Two players previously ejected, then the two players attacking the official. These coaches obviously had lost control of their team and I believe have some responsibility here for failing to teach good team discipline. We all know teams on which behavior like this would not happen because the coaching staff had instilled respect and accountability into their programs. We also all know teams on which this type of incident wouldn't be a surprise because of coaching shortcomings along those same lines.
I know that no amount of good coaching can get through to some kids, but four players on the same team on one Friday night seems like a cultural problem on that team. Coaches set the tone.
I would be hard-pressed to accept an assignment to officiate any game with that coaching staff on the sideline.

Offline Coby

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2015, 11:34:58 AM »
My 6 year old was crying when she saw the video.  Then my 7 year old explained to her that dad is on the other side of the ball.  Which helped for a second then she asked who was in the effected position and my son responded "your godfather Nathan".  Which did not help the decibel level at my house.

This is going to further damage our recruiting efforts.  This could serve as a catalyst for change but it will not. 

TASO social media watchdogs... Roll this into a positive and make a hard stand on something please!!!

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2015, 11:45:45 AM »
TASO social media watchdogs... Roll this into a positive and make a hard stand on something please!!!
Good point Coby!  But do you really believe it will happen?

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2015, 01:13:15 PM »
No decision after UIL emergency hearing on alleged targeting of official
Posted: Sep 09, 2015 12:17 PM CDTUpdated: Sep 09, 2015 12:17 PM CDT
ROUND ROCK (KVUE) - Officials from the Northside ISD, the Texas Association of Sports Officials, and others met Wednesday at an emergency hearing before the University Interscholastic League to address the possible targeting of a football official by two John Jay High School players.
No decision on any possible punishment was made Wednesday as the session was more for the various parties involved to report where they are in their investigation into the incident from last Friday’s game between John Jay High and Marble Falls High School.
In the incident, the umpire in the game was run over by a John Jay High player who appeared to target the official with the hit. A second player from John Jay High then led with his helmet and appeared to dive at the official who was on the ground.
Video of the incident has gone viral since the game. The umpire, who is from Austin, is “wanting to press charges” over the hit, according Wednesday, NISD superintendent Brian Woods told the UIL executive committee that he and his staff have been investigating the incident since Friday night and that the entire event “is shameful to us.”
“We do not believe that the actions of these young men reflect the young people who are in our schools and our athletic programs,” Woods told the committee Wednesday.
The committee heard Woods say that the incident was being treated as “an assault on a school official” when it comes to the investigation. Both students have been suspended from the football team and the school pending a disciplinary hearing that will come at a later date.
However, Woods also emphasized that there are more aspects to the incident than just the hit in the video that has gone viral online. Specifically, Woods discussed the allegations that an assistant coach, identified as Mack Breed by KVUE sister stations KENS5 in San Antonio, may have said that the umpired needed to pay for bad calls in the game and allegations that the umpire may have used racial slurs against players.
The head coach of the John Jay team, Gary Gutierrez, has already been cleared by the district of any involvement in the incident, according to KENS5.
Woods told the Committee that the assistant coach in question has also been put on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation into the incident.
When it comes to the official in question, identified by KVUE news partners the Austin American-Statesman as Robert Watts, the executive committee was told by the TASO Wednesday that he was not a regular member of the crew and instead a fill-in for the game between John Jay High and Marble Falls.
The game featured multiple objections and had at least one member of the executive committee asking school officials if the game was under control of the officials or coaches on Friday. A total of four players were ejected from the game that saw controversy all the way to the final play when Marble Falls kneeled down.
“We will be interviewing every coach on that staff to ensure that institutional control is not an issue,” Woods said.
According to testimony at the executive committee hearing Wednesday, TASO said it’s the normal protocol to speak to the players and coaches if a game is getting out of hand. TASO said it’s officials will either speak to a team captain or get communication to the sideline that a player may need to come out of the game for a play or two to cool off.
The TASO told the committee it has asked the crew members at the game to provide the organization with “a report on the incident, but start from the coin toss through the moment they walked off the field including any player interaction, coaching interaction, player on player interaction they overheard” and more. The TASO said the officials are working on that report to be submitted.
In addition, the TASO said that a director with its organization is analyzing the game film and making notes on any plays that may have been called for penalties and any that may have been missed. That report is expected to be completed and given to the TASO as early as Wednesday.
Marble Falls police said Monday it is also conducting an investigation of the incident. Marble Falls said they will hold a press conference about the incident on Thursday morning.
The UIL state executive committee can publicly reprimand or suspend a student athlete, but has more options to deal with participating schools. It can choose to impose a reprimand, public reprimand, forfeiture of contest, disqualify teams from district honors up to three years, or a mandatory disqualification.to ESPN.com.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2015, 01:14:40 PM »
:!# This is a real eye opener. If this type of behavior occurred during a game in Illinois that our crew officiated, an unsportsmanlike flag  ^flag would be immediate and we would have full support of the IHSA.

Me too - the flag would have been in the air as soon as he told the B he was dung, much less the rest of the crew.  Anything that starts with you and is followed by an adjective is going to draw one, every time.  And I have no doubts that the VHSL would support it.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2015, 01:25:04 PM »
In addition, the TASO said that a director with its organization is analyzing the game film and making notes on any plays that may have been called for penalties and any that may have been missed. That report is expected to be completed and given to the TASO as early as Wednesday.

So, wait...  TASO is even considering the possibility that any missed calls can mitigate what happened?  Um, wow.  Remind me not to work football if I ever have to move to Texas...

And I can say that, since I'm not in Texas...

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Terrible Incident in Texas
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2015, 01:39:14 PM »
Yeah, lets try to do everything possible to say the crew is at fault and not these 2 upstanding young men!!!