Author Topic: Excessive Celebration ??  (Read 42853 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Excessive Celebration ??
« on: December 01, 2010, 07:37:22 AM »
? ? ? ? This is not allowed in Fed ?

[yt=425,350]xIi2H4zMZW8[/yt]

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 07:48:12 AM »
Wouldn't draw a flag around here.  But even if it did, I wouldn't want the official throwing his flag directly AT a player.

LarryW60

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 07:56:23 AM »
Players should always be aware of how they look to the people around them.  The player was probably fine until he pointed up.  Praying after a score is kind of iffy for drawing attention to yourself, but following it up with the "number one" hand signal probably pushed it over into a flag.

I'm always amused at the people who feel they need to immediately thank their deity for allowing them to do something good on a sports field.  This is more of a "Everyone look at how pious I am!" action.  If it really were only about thanking their deity, they could have waited until they got to the sidelines to do it (and avoided any possibility of a flag).  Or maybe they think their deity has an extremely short attention span and won't remember the touchdown by the time the player goes to the sidelines? ::)

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 08:11:35 AM »
So that's unsportsmanlike?  You've got to be kidding me.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 10:17:31 AM »
I'm not flagging that.

Mike L

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 10:31:41 AM »
Poor officiating decisions are made all the time, it's not the exclusive domain of just Fed.

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 12:34:20 PM »
Poor officiating decisions are made all the time, it's not the exclusive domain of just Fed.

Very True

VALinesman

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 03:27:56 PM »
Poor officiating? For enforcing the rules? Really? Why have a rulebook then? We can just consult you Mike L. The player drew attention to himself.

An example of unsportsmanlike conduct is "[a]ny delayed, excessive or prolonged act by which a player attempts to focus attention upon himself."

I love it when enforcing the rules makes you a poor official. Or apparently, being an official in the NFHS.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 03:42:05 PM »
Apparently the NFHS has not tweaked this rule?  The NCAA tweaked it in the mid-90's after  a lawsuit was filed by Liberty University.  The tweak permitted "momentary pray at the end of a play if they do not draw attention to themselves." The NCAA Rules Committee Chairman at the time (Vince Dolley) said the "N.C.A.A. was concerned about the perception that it had banned prayer from football."

Offline psv

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 04:11:05 PM »
O.O   :o   :o   :o   :!#

Are you kidding?  If he smiles, do they flag that too?

wow. 

So, i guess you can say, i wouldn't flag it, and not only would i not flag it, if i saw one of my compatriots flag it, i would insist they wave it off.

there might be a rule on it, but this type of call is a judgment call all the way.  Poor judgment in my humble opinion.

but that is just me :)

Cooter

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 04:14:04 PM »
Poor officiating? For enforcing the rules? Really? Why have a rulebook then? We can just consult you Mike L. The player drew attention to himself.

An example of unsportsmanlike conduct is "[a]ny delayed, excessive or prolonged act by which a player attempts to focus attention upon himself."

I love it when enforcing the rules makes you a poor official. Or apparently, being an official in the NFHS.

I think "poor official" was probably a bad tag - however, we must be conscience of the fact that some officials are "overly technical."  I do not feel for one minute that the intent of the rule was to flag a player in the given circumstance - 2009 five man crew mechanics - published by my state association - "The intent of each rule must be kept in mind."  "Football sense must supersede the most technical application of the rules."  There is more that I won't bore you all with because it is common sense for most of us. We use NCAA - but I'm sure NFHS has similar warnings...

cougar729

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 04:40:54 PM »
I wouldnt go looking for this, excessive celebration is something that finds you and therefore deserves a flag

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 05:37:39 PM »
Poor officiating?

Why do you truncate what the poster actually said?  Re-read the post. It was refered to as a poor officiating decision, and indeed it was. I'll bet you make one or two of those every time you step onto the field, no?  I know I do.

Best regards,

Brad

Mike L

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 06:09:32 PM »
Poor officiating? For enforcing the rules? Really? Why have a rulebook then? We can just consult you Mike L. The player drew attention to himself.

An example of unsportsmanlike conduct is "[a]ny delayed, excessive or prolonged act by which a player attempts to focus attention upon himself."

I love it when enforcing the rules makes you a poor official. Or apparently, being an official in the NFHS.

You want to call those 2 second kneel-downs directed at no-one in particluar "delayed, excessive or prolonged" be my guest.
As for your inability to grasp my meaning, looks like Brad already took care of that.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 07:28:40 PM »
 The player was probably fine until he pointed up.  Praying after a score is kind of iffy for drawing attention to yourself, but following it up with the "number one" hand signal probably pushed it over into a flag.

What you describe as the "number one" hand signal would be seen by many of us as the player simply pointing at the heavens to acknowledge his Lord.

Offline gsrc

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 08:17:42 PM »
I am obviously in the minority here but I think that's a call that is correct. It fits the "drawing attention to ones self" part of the excessive celebration rule. You want to get on a knee and point to the heavens, do it in the team box.

Let the blasting begin....

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 09:06:37 PM »
It fits the "drawing attention to ones self" part of the excessive celebration rule.

I see it as drawing attention to someone greater than ones self.

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 09:11:03 PM »
My supervisor would not want this called.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 11:49:12 PM »
Ouch...this made the national news.  pi1eOn

VALinesman

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 11:59:28 PM »
Why do you truncate what the poster actually said?  Re-read the post. It was refered to as a poor officiating decision, and indeed it was. I'll bet you make one or two of those every time you step onto the field, no?  I know I do.

Best regards,

Brad

You are right. My apologies Mike L. Rereading the post, I certainly went overboard and actually took it out of context.

But I do think that you need to penalize that conduct (and btw, wasn't that a player from the team that blew out their opponent? I need to look at the clip again). But the other poster is right, don't throw the flag at the player.

VALinesman

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2010, 12:00:49 AM »
What you describe as the "number one" hand signal would be seen by many of us as the player simply pointing at the heavens to acknowledge his Lord.

Even if you took it to point to God, the player is still drawing attention to himself in my opinion.

younggun

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2010, 12:47:51 AM »
So... I think there is a bigger problem here that needs to be addressed... I think most of yall know this all ready but I am still going to bring this up... This story is all over youtube, Foxnews, Yahoo, CNN, ESPN, and local outlets in WA. I am not going to say that this official was right or wrong. I would have not thrown the flag. But how many times have you made a call and just 15 min later you say... 'Did I really have to make that dumb call?' We have all been there, and we know it. Just remember in todays day and age just remember weather you are doing a Pop Warner game or calling a Div II game... most all games are being recorded some how. Just remember that almost everything you do out there is documented on video by someone and we are always going to be put in the dark light we are officials it will always be that way. We are expected to be perfect when we go out the first time and only get better from there. I guess my point is, do your best weather it is Pop Warner or High school be professional all the time and keep in mind that you are not only reflecting yourself but officials everywhere.

By writing this I am no way trying to put any blame on the official in this game, I am sure he would give anything to take the flag back if it ment he was going to be all over the national news... I am going to say a prayer for him tonight... no pun intended...

Diablo

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2010, 05:33:23 AM »
I am obviously in the minority here but I think that's a call that is correct. It fits the "drawing attention to ones self" part of the excessive celebration rule. You want to get on a knee and point to the heavens, do it in the team box.

I agree.  These acts fit the criteria for a foul.  If he pointed to his main squeeze in the stands, we'd flag it.
But the dog has been off leach for several years.  It's not likely we'll get him back.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2010, 05:38:53 AM »
So in all these years the NFHS has never addressed this specifically?  I can't believe this is the first time a kid did something like this.  As I mentioned earlier, the NCAA already dealt with this and came to a good resolution IMHO.

Another story:  http://www.theolympian.com/2010/12/02/1459932/unwitting-gesture.html

Unwitting gesture; national attentionCause célébre: When Ron Hastie pointed skyward, he brought out yellow flag, and a firestorm about his faith
GAIL WOOD; Staff writer | • Published December 02, 2010 
 
 A year ago, Ronnie Hastie came up with a touchdown routine that expressed his Christian faith.

The Tumwater junior running back simply kneels on one knee in the end zone, extends his right arm and points his index finger upward. It takes about two seconds.


“It’s my way of giving glory to God, not to myself,” Hastie said. “I want to give God the credit.”


Players from the NFL to college to high school do similar TD acts across the country. And it’s something Hastie did 17 times this season without incident.


But on Monday, in a 63-27 win against East Valley of Spokane in the state 2A semifinals, Hastie, on his 18th touchdown of the season, was penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct after scoring on a 23-yard run.


“I asked the ref what I did,” Hastie said. “He said you can’t bring attention to yourself.”


That now famous penalty – with the official throwing the yellow flag and hitting Hastie with it – has drawn national attention. A video link from Channel 4’s coverage of Hastie running for the touchdown is on websites across the country. He’ll be interviewed on a national radio show today.


“I am surprised how much attention it’s gotten,” Hastie said.


Some see the penalty as an attack on the Christian faith – akin to when prayer was banned from public schools.


“My dad said that when you put football and religion together you get strong emotions,” Hastie said, smiling.


Sid Otton, Tumwater’s coach since 1974 and the state’s all-time winningest football coach, admits he was surprised to see a penalty called.


“It hadn’t been called all year,” Otton said. “It would have been nice if the official warned him.”


Otton shouldered some of the blame.


“I feel I should have known,” Otten said. “Ronnie is a great kid. He has the courage to let people know what he believes in.”


Mike Colbrese, executive director of the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association, said the official was trying to enforce Rule 5-9, which states that any delay or excessive or prolonged celebration in which the player attempts to draw focus to himself is a penalty.


But Hastie’s bended knee celebration took approximately two seconds.


“The rule stipulates that you return the ball to the official and not bring attention to yourself,” Colbrese said.


Colbrese, who was at the game and not far from Hastie when he made his now famous bended-knee gesture, would not make a judgment on the official’s call. But he did say consistency is the goal.


“What we are doing is we’re having an internal discussion with the Washington Officials’ Association,” Colbrese said. “It’s something we’re reviewing.”


Colbrese said it wasn’t so much what Hastie did. It’s what he didn’t do – give the football directly to the official.


“It wasn’t like he did anything bad,” Otton said. “He wasn’t being like T.O. (Terrell Owens).”


Hastie won’t continue his end zone routine just to prove a point.


“He’s not wanting to jeopardize the team,” Otton said.


Hastie said he’ll kneel on a knee on the sideline.


“I don’t want to make a big deal out of this,” Hastie said.


Tumwater will go for its fifth state title when it plays Archbishop Murphy in the state championship game at 1 p.m. Saturday in the Tacoma Dome.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 05:56:54 AM by TXMike »

Christian

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Re: Excessive Celebration ??
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2010, 07:52:27 AM »
I don't think I'd have flagged this, but on the other hand, I don't particularly disagree with it either.

The fact that the flag hit the player seems incidental to me as the flag comes down from a very high angle, and the player was at the time walking towards the official. If the player had stayed where he was, the flag wouldn't have hit him, so claiming that the official threw the flag 'at him' is a bit unjust in my opinion.