Author Topic: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??  (Read 29594 times)

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El Macman

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Why I do this...
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2011, 04:57:02 PM »
Why do we do this?

I often reflect on that question. I probably wouldn't do it if I didn't get paid for it, but the amount of pay danged sure ain't why I got and stayed into it. So why? In my case, if I could answer that, I probably wouldn't do it. At this point, it is in my soul. It's what I do. It isn't my occupation, but, nonetheless, it is what I do. I could change occupations. It would still be what I do. When I get to a game, they hand me a check, and I just drop it my briefcase. I don't even look at it. I hand it to my wife when I get home. Then I go out and do it again the next week. And I am disappointed when the season ends.

It is what I do.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 05:05:59 PM by Grant - AR »

Offline AIAFA171

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2011, 08:19:02 AM »
Responding from Italy
We make 35/40 EURO (50/55 USD more or less) for game depending on the level we work.
Pls travel expenses, never seen any food besides occasional offerings from team's stands (we work in a club organization rather than schools)
The Texans way (% of gate) would most probably hurt us. Usually you can count down people in the stands before kick off ...  hEaDbAnG

Why we do it ?
For the passion for the game I guess. I started 8 years ago (I was 35 then) and was the only "sane" way to stay in the game ... playing, even at lowest level possible, would be too dangerous having a life outside football.

Ciao

Offline TXMike

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2011, 04:51:13 PM »
If you ever work my Vicenza Cougars, be kind.   ;D

110

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2011, 05:46:32 PM »
I think some of you guys might want to re-evaluate motives. I honestly don't know how much I get for a game. It might be 40 for varsity. I know I'm getting $18 for a pee wee game tomorrow.

Offline SWilliams

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2011, 09:35:22 PM »
If my comments sound ungrateful they're not meant to be, however in this day of modern, "super competitive business, i.e. keeping up with the Joneses" I simply don't see the problem with the officiating crew asking for a fair compensation/benefit package.  If it is not offered, either accept what they are offering, or don't.

In most states the associations (governing bodies) either look out for you, or they don't.  In Arkansas, there is a "suggested minimum pay" of $65 for Varsity, and $40 for Jr. Varsity.  They also suggest paying mileage.  Some schools do better than suggested, and some do just the minimum.

Many schools offer a fair pay.  Food varies.  Showers are rare. 

So you know what our state minimums are.  Our crew also has our minimums, and what we are looking for.  We try to obtain contracts with schools that pay $80 to $105 per official with travel pay of $20 to $60.  We travel an average 125 miles each way to do the contest.  Our time in the car allows us to pre-game and fellowship both before and after the game.  We get to see many different parts of the state.

We've had everything from concession stand fare to cold, uncooked chicken to a homemade cajun spread, even one school coordinated homemade lasagna/salad/rolls/brownies.

Here is where the keeping up with the Joneses comment comes in...many of the schools in our states are moderately at or below budget with a few who are super funded.  Before you throw in the "schools can't afford to pay officials well argument" many of these under funded schools within the last 2 to 3 years have installed $150k to $1M worth of new turf/stadiums/fieldhouses, etc. and are being featured in statewide publications, so the money is there, it is just getting the school to place a value on the service you provide to them. 

Last night for instance, we travelled 160 miles round trip, made $85 for officiating, the driver got $40 extra, we all were paid cash at halftime, the coach fed us chicken fajita meals from the local hispanic restaurant.  We had a place to shower and were treated extremely well.  That made it a memorable night, and for most a rare experience.  It also makes up for the nights when other schools of better means don't even want to give you water!

I think as an officiating crew, you have the right to negotiate the best contract for your crew.  If you don't have that right, then as far as my crew is concerned, there are those schools who value what we do and we will seek them out.  They're out there.  My calendar is 85% filled with their contracts!

Lastly, if coaches can hold you to a standard of officiating, why can you not hold their school accountable to a standard of hospitality?  Is good/great hospitality expected, or should it be required?  That's up to you to decide.  We look at it as a courtesy, and we are always grateful for whatever we receive.  However, the employer/independent contractor relationship should be a double sided street.  Good dialog with the coaching staff can't do anything but improve conditions (where lacking) for your fellow officials.
Scott Williams
Little Rock, Arkansas

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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2011, 10:30:06 PM »
Showers are rare. 

Really?  You have to drive 125 miles back home without a shower?  I can't understand that.

Best regards,

Brad

Offline NWA_UMP

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2011, 01:18:37 PM »
Not sure what part of Arkansas he works...but in our area showers are rare...especially when you get into small schools. Sometimes you change in a coaches office.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2011, 04:52:57 PM »
Heck there are not even that many houses in Arkansas that have showers are there?  Why would you expect there to be any for officials at a football game.

Offline NWA_UMP

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2011, 07:04:23 PM »
Yeah Mike, I would agree...kind of like all the homes in Texas that don't have indoor plumbing and toilets in Texas. ;)

Offline TXMike

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2011, 07:42:56 PM »
I guess...if your only exposure to Texas is Texarkana.

Offline fencewire

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2011, 09:51:38 PM »
one problem in TX seems to be the "season" tickets.  Many districts don't consider them "gate".  For example, last year, had a game where the stadium held 10K folks, reported on the radio during the game (so I was told) that they were turning folks away at the gate.  So... you would think a sellout. I have no idea what a ticket costs, but I would guess they average about 4$ per to cover the bands, teachers, etc that don't pay, and it makes the math easy.

40,000
-20,000 = 125.00
--------
20,000 @ 20.00/5,000 = 80.00
Rider = 10.00
----------------
215.00

our checks were 145.00.  So, either they made up their own pay schedule or they didn't pay the rider fee, because it will always be an odd number over the 115$ level.

It does no good to question their math, tried that before and was received not too kindly by the AD as in how dare a lowly official dare question the figures that they determined were correct.

Offline NWA_UMP

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2011, 10:12:04 PM »
TXMike...

I have never been to Texarkana...lived in DFW for 2 years...go figure.

Have a good day...

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2011, 10:19:03 PM »
one problem in TX seems to be the "season" tickets.  Many districts don't consider them "gate".  For example, last year, had a game where the stadium held 10K folks, reported on the radio during the game (so I was told) that they were turning folks away at the gate.  So... you would think a sellout. I have no idea what a ticket costs, but I would guess they average about 4$ per to cover the bands, teachers, etc that don't pay, and it makes the math easy.

40,000
-20,000 = 125.00
--------
20,000 @ 20.00/5,000 = 80.00
Rider = 10.00
----------------
215.00

our checks were 145.00.  So, either they made up their own pay schedule or they didn't pay the rider fee, because it will always be an odd number over the 115$ level.

It does no good to question their math, tried that before and was received not too kindly by the AD as in how dare a lowly official dare question the figures that they determined were correct.

I had an official report to me that they received $123.21 including mileage.  Explain that.

Offline fencewire

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2011, 10:23:57 PM »
 ??? LOL  hEaDbAnG

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2011, 08:21:21 AM »
Responding from Italy
We make 35/40 EURO (50/55 USD more or less) for game depending on the level we work.
Pls travel expenses, never seen any food besides occasional offerings from team's stands (we work in a club organization rather than schools)
The Texans way (% of gate) would most probably hurt us. Usually you can count down people in the stands before kick off ...  hEaDbAnG

Why we do it ?
For the passion for the game I guess. I started 8 years ago (I was 35 then) and was the only "sane" way to stay in the game ... playing, even at lowest level possible, would be too dangerous having a life outside football.

Ciao

I read the book "Playing for Pizza" by John Grisham.  Great book about an American guy playing QB on an Italian team.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2011, 08:27:43 AM »
I think as an officiating crew, you have the right to negotiate the best contract for your crew.  If you don't have that right, then as far as my crew is concerned, there are those schools who value what we do and we will seek them out.  They're out there.  My calendar is 85% filled with their contracts!

You get to negotiate your pay with the schools?  Wow.  That's one of the reason there are problems between TASO and the UIL in Texas.  Some associations wanted to negotiate with the schools but the UIL dictates our pay.  What is very irritating is that most schools do not follow UIL rules, but we can't say a thing about it.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2011, 08:41:52 AM »
You get to negotiate your pay with the schools?  Wow.  That's one of the reason there are problems between TASO and the UIL in Texas.  Some associations wanted to negotiate with the schools but the UIL dictates our pay.  What is very irritating is that most schools do not follow UIL rules, but we can't say a thing about it.

Didn't you know? Adherence to 1204 is a one-way street.

Grant - AR

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2011, 12:53:31 PM »
I read the book "Playing for Pizza" by John Grisham.  Great book about an American guy playing QB on an Italian team.

That was a good book.   ^good

Offline BankerRef

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2011, 01:05:56 PM »
Personally, I don't question or judge anyone else's motivation for doing what we do.  We all have our reasons and they are all valid if they keep us on the field. 

I am happy for you guys that don't look at your checks.  However, while I am certainly not in it for the money I don't like being taken advantage of.  I have a problem working in $10 to $20 million stadiums for head coaches making 6 figures with 15 other coaches at their side and having the guys on our crew making less for their efforts that night than the security guards the school hired for the game.  In Texas you don't have to take a hard look around to see the money being spent on high school football.  When the schools can obviously afford fair compensation for our time and expenses I don't think it is too much to ask that they do.

Offline Coby

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Re: Question #2- What is fair pay for officials??
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2011, 08:59:26 PM »
I am waiting to put my services up on EBAY and let the schools bid on me and my crew.  I bet I will be able to do that in my life time.