Taking a Knee

[Old Coach]

Just don't say anything...until he takes a knee.

It ain't brain science.

[Wettstein]

Just curious what your take is on taking a knee.  In the NFL, the Bucs were critisized for hitting the qb after he took a knee.  I support that.  They were down by less than one score and they have as much right to win the game then the offense.  Now, I understand that in the NFL, there is a "gentleman's agreement" that if there isn't enough time left in the game, then you allow other team to take a knee and finish the game.  I have also spoken to other fans who hate the "take a knee" play and feel it is cheating the fans.  I have also seen at the high school and youth level where the officials will tell the defense not to hit if the offense is taking a knee.  Again, I'm okay with that if the defense is more than two scores away, but I feel that is unfair to the defense if they can get the ball back.  What do you guys do and please reference any rules that may support your stand.

[Atlanta Blue]

You tell them not to hit the QB, then the QB fumbles the snap.  Now what?

NEVER tell the defense not to hit the QB.  My first preference is that the officials stay out of coaching and not say anything.  But if you can't help yourself,  tell the defense not to do anything stupid IF the offense takes a knee.

[Kalle]

I never say anything (I might say something like "play smart"), just have the officials to pinch in a lot and have their whistles ready in their hands (not in their mouths).

[HLinNC]

Oh no, not again.....

<headsmack thingy>

http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=4398.0

[maven]

Oh no, not again.....

<headsmack thingy>

Agree. Wettstein, this topic has been addressed in numerous threads, which we all welcome you to consult.

Here's a brief summary:

Some officials try to enforce their own vision of how the "victory" play should go down and flag any deviation from their opinion as UNS.

Some officials think they have no business coaching and say nothing, officiating play as usual.

Some officials will tell the offense to "protect yourselves" and the defense "don't do anything stupid," then officiate the play as usual.

Some officials think their way is the only proper/legal/traditional/historical/defensible/reasonable way to officiate "victory."

Nobody has gotten much traction on this issue, AFAICT.

[Atlanta Blue]

Some officials try to enforce their own vision of how the "victory" play should go down and flag any deviation from their opinion as UNS.

Some officials think they have no business coaching and say nothing, officiating play as usual.

Some officials will tell the offense to "protect yourselves" and the defense "don't do anything stupid," then officiate the play as usual.

Some officials think their way is the only proper/legal/traditional/historical/defensible/reasonable way to officiate "victory."

I don't know about officials, but coaches prefer #2, but can live with #3.  Those following #1 are going to have to respond to a report filed with the state.

[HLinNC]

but coaches prefer #2, but can live with #3.

.

I call BS  here AB.   Team B may prefer # 2 but I guarantee you Team A's coach is livid and wants  PF, USC,  ejection and maybe death by hanging.

[FBUmp]

You tell them not to hit the QB, then the QB fumbles the snap.  Now what?

NEVER tell the defense not to hit the QB.  My first preference is that the officials stay out of coaching and not say anything.  But if you can't help yourself,  tell the defense not to do anything stupid IF the offense takes a knee.

First, I usually tell the offense to protect themselves and I tell the defense, "Don't do anything stupid."

I don't see anything wrong with telling the defense, "Told hit him if he takes a knee." 

That's not coaching, it's preventive officiating, trying to keep someone from getting hurt and someone else from getting ejected.

[bbeagle]

I have also spoken to other fans who hate the "take a knee" play and feel it is cheating the fans.

I completely agree.

I absolutely hate the 'victory formation' of taking a knee. If you're up by 17, fine, but not if you're up by only 1 score.

I love how Canadian Football handles this. Sitting on the ball is basically illegal. Near the end of the game, the offense must gain at least 1 yard or the clock stops. This forces the offense to play the game until the end.

Why can't we add this to American Football?

[Atlanta Blue]

Near the end of the game, the offense must gain at least 1 yard or the clock stops. This forces the offense to play the game until the end.

Why can't we add this to American Football?

They did, in Arena League football.  In the last minute (maybe 2 minutes, can't recall), if the team that is ahead is on offense, and they don't gain yardage on the play, the clock stops and starts on the snap.

[maven]

I don't get the complaints. Clock management is part of every game with a clock. The notion that managing the clock is somehow cheating someone is risible.

If you don't want your opponent to run the "victory" formation, then take the lead.

[Rulesman]

I completely agree.

I absolutely hate the 'victory formation' of taking a knee. If you're up by 17, fine, but not if you're up by only 1 score.

I love how Canadian Football handles this. Sitting on the ball is basically illegal. Near the end of the game, the offense must gain at least 1 yard or the clock stops. This forces the offense to play the game until the end.

Why can't we add this to American Football?

Suggest it as a rule change to your state assoication.

[TampaSteve]

For what it's worth, the psyche/procedure round these parts is if QB tells R they are taking a knee, R will tell B, "guys, he's taking a knee.  dont do anything stupid."
B doesnt do anything.

[HLinNC]

Apparently that philosophy only holds true for the amateur ranks in your area, eh Steve?

[TampaSteve]

Apparently that philosophy only holds true for the amateur ranks in your area, eh Steve?

Seemingly true at most every level but the bush-leaguers in this town.
Perhaps if they worry more about playing for the other 59 minutes then going all-out in victory formation or trying to draw K offsides by yelling signals (ala dick butkus) they might be winning a little more.

[Rulesman]

Seemingly true at most every level but the bush-leaguers in this town.
Perhaps if they worry more about playing for the other 59 minutes then going all-out in victory formation or trying to draw K offsides by yelling signals (ala dick butkus) they might be winning a little more.

Ouch!

[BuckTrump]

"Be aware, They are taking a knee"

Seems pretty simple to me.  Whatever happens before and after the ball is snapped is called as it needs to be.  No need to overthink something that doesn't need to be!

[bbeagle]

If you don't want your opponent to run the "victory" formation, then take the lead.

That's not it. I don't like my OWN TEAM doing it either.

It's just a boring play, and if we're not allowing the defense to rush in, why not just end the game when the offense gets the ball with 1:15 left (:25 x 3)? Why go through this 'formality'?

[110]

I love how Canadian Football handles this. Sitting on the ball is basically illegal. Near the end of the game, the offense must gain at least 1 yard or the clock stops. This forces the offense to play the game until the end.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not quite right. After the three-minute warning, the clock stops AFTER EVERY PLAY.

The clock starts on the RFP if the ball is downed inbounds on the previous possession, but starts on the snap if the previous possession was
a) a change of possession
b) incomplete pass
c) ballcarrier downed out of bounds
d) accepted penalty by either side

and starts on the snap if preceeded by
e) a timeout

Note that the play clock is only 20 seconds, by the way. The RFP is held until both sides have reasonable chance to make substitutions.

[VALJ]

Some officials will tell the offense to "protect yourselves" and the defense "don't do anything stupid," then officiate the play as usual.

 

I'm not in the business of coaching, and I'm darn sure not in the business of calling plays.  Telling both teams to "be smart" is as far out on that ledge as I'm stepping.

[ECILLJ]

During the last game of the season, with playoff implications on the line, the coach of Team A, who was losing by 6 points, yells to us that his team is taking a knee. There is 45 seconds to play in the first half.  We relayed this to Team B. Team A breaks the huddle and lines up in their formation and the Team A coach begins yelling they aren't taking a knee. This caused confusion with our crew, so R blew his whistle for an official's timeout to let B know that A was not taking a knee. In the future, we will handle this play differently . If the score is lopsided and the game is decided, we will continue to communicate with the linemen. If the game is still in the balance, we will not say anything and let the play run its course. There are coaches out there (AB is not one of them) who will try to use the confusion from the "take a knee - don't take a knee" to their teams advantage.

[bbeagle]

There are coaches out there (AB is not one of them) who will try to use the confusion from the "take a knee - don't take a knee" to their teams advantage.

Around our parts, we have had the same issues.

We tell the defense to lay off, that that offense is taking a knee. If the offense does anything other than take a knee, our chapter has been told to blow the play dead immediately and issue a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct.

[maven]

That's not it. I don't like my OWN TEAM doing it either.

It's just a boring play, and if we're not allowing the defense to rush in, why not just end the game when the offense gets the ball with 1:15 left (:25 x 3)? Why go through this 'formality'?

Some people find a dive play boring. De gustibus non est disputandum.

You go through the "formality" because the game is not over until time expires.

[Atlanta Blue]

Around our parts, we have had the same issues.

We tell the defense to lay off, that that offense is taking a knee. If the offense does anything other than take a knee, our chapter has been told to blow the play dead immediately and issue a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct.

And what rule allows a USC call?

Why not just officiate the game you have?