Mouths of Coaches...Part II

[Bugolathe]

I've flagging teams for having 12 in the huddle when the replaced player does not immediately leave.  I believe this is correct according to 3-7-1.

[waltjp]

[quote author=busman link=topic=2110.msg35272#msg35272 date=1221082378


2.  One request for 12 men in the huddle call (They called it on us Friday!)


 


I've flagging teams for having 12 in the huddle when the replaced player does not immediately leave.  I believe this is correct according to 3-7-1.

There is no rule against having 12 in the huddle.  The penalty is because the team did not send the replaced player off the field in a timely manner.

[James]

I had a great one yesterday from the coach (I'm U and the play dies right at my feet)
"How could you see a facemask? Can you see through bodies?" AND
"He couldn't have done it, he is the left end (pile ended a little right of center)"

I thought that was just stupid, but then a few plays later one of his players got hurt on a punt return and he was screaming at me for not calling a facemask that time. First - both side officials saw the tackle and described it as similar to a horsecollar, but they fell forward. Secondly, what would I as U be doing seeing a facemask 40 yards away from me right on a sideline (the opposite from the coach who was just as far away) at all.
But - since I saw a facemask in the game, I must be the guy who throws facemask penalties...

[yarnnelg]

Don't know why I did this. Wasn't proud of it ..... Don't know where it came from ...

Bench behind me is on defense. Ball at the 48. Snap, QB and running back coming in my direction in that classic option pitch series. Stepped back and then toward the backfield of the offense as the QB beagn to make his turn. Running back slightly ahead of the QB, last minute QB pitches the ball forward, running back catches the ball both behind the LOS ..... Coaches on my sideline go nuts ... "He pitched it forward, He pitched it forward!" "That's illegal, it's illegal" Tackle, marked the forward progress. Don't know where this came from ..... In a booming voice I respond "He was behind the Line of Scrimmage!"  ..... crickets ....... The most silent I've ever heard a sideline ..... I wlked over to the Head Coach and said "I don't know where that came from, I apologize for my response" "Apologize hell, it's the only way to get our attention, that told us right away that you know what your doing and that you won't put up with any crap from us. It was a dang good call"   I was stunned .....

[Bugolathe]

There is no rule against having 12 in the huddle.  The penalty is because the team did not send the replaced player off the field in a timely manner.

If you have 12 in the huddle, doesn't that mean a replaced player did not leave immediately? 

[Welpe]

If you have 12 in the huddle, doesn't that mean a replaced player did not leave immediately? 

Not necessarily.  You could have the substitute join the huddle, inform the player he is replacing and the replaced player leaves the huddle.  It wasn't for very long, but you did have 12 in the huddle.

[waltjp]

Exactly.

[GAHSUMPIRE]

yarnnelg, I had a similar situation happen to me.

qb drops back to pass, is pressured,   steps up and tosses the ball underhanded to a back,( the Utah pass), play gains 5 yds. Coach of the defense loses his mind screaming for an illegal forward pass. Not because the qb was over the line of scrimmage, but because he threw it underhand. He took a timeout to "discuss" the call.  I let him rant, told him it was a legal pass, and went on my way. He however, was not finished. "You're f!@#$ing killing me!"

15 yd unsportsmanlike

Later in the same game, back on defense, A has 11 in the huddle. for some reason, the 11th man thinks he is should not be in on this play, and leaves the field as they break the huddle. Offense lines up with 10 men (7 on the line) and runs the play. Coach screams "too many men, they broke the huddle with 12".

He again calls time out to "discuss" the situation. I tell him that the player that left the field, was not the 12th player, but the 11th, that they ran the play with 10. He didn't believe me, and continued to protest. There was nothing left to say, so I turn to begin play again.

He continues "C'mon, give me a call, I'm begging you". ( Several snappy retorts raced through my mind at that point, but I thought it best to leave it alone). Then he came out with " This is absolute Bull****!"

2nd USC, coach is ejected. Had to get the game manager and the police officer to escort him off the field.

This was a game between 2 10 year old teams, and he was leading 32-0 at the time.

[busman]

Great role model for 10 year olds.  I hope the league takes some further action.

[BCHSDE81]

I had a coach (Middle School) last Tuesday behind 48-0 with a running clock (Mercy Rule)still calling time outs at 2 min.'s wanting to make sure he had the right call for his 1st string offense.
The other team was playing all their bench players at the time.
He wonders why he can't get officials who want to call their games.

[yarnnelg]

Loved this one. Private schools, Varsity High School Game. Tackle on my side in three point stance, lifts his hand to reset closer to the guard.... flag, whistle .....

Booming voice from the opposite sideline ... "He doesn't understand, He's from England!"

So I sent a message back via the Umpire and Line Judge ... "If I had known he was one of the Beatles I wouldn't have flagged him."

Message back .... "What's a Beatle?"

I'm getting old ...... 

[Dommer1]

Hmm, I wonder what excuse the use for this foul in the UK? ;-)

[yarnnelg]

Last night close game. Visitors scored touchdown and two point conversion on a fake field goal (still can't figure out why you would burn your last TO in an attempt to ice the kisker on a try for point) 49 seconds left on the board for the Home team. Home team actually hitting passes on the sides and getting OOB on each play to stop the clock. Pass on the opposite sideline. I've got receivers in my zone and never looked over there. Head Coach asks... "Tell me true, did you see that receiver drop the ball on the other sideline?" "Never looked over there Coach" "Oh that's all right your wearing glasses, you wouldn't have seen it" "Uh, coach, you're wearing glasses too."

[JohnB]

Last Thursday night I was working a Jr. High game....3rd quarter, running clock, the home team scoring on every possession. Coach backs off and finally puts his 7th graders in. After a couple of sacks and a false start they're 3rd and 20. Next play we get a PF facemask and after the walk off I signal 3rd down...He said "It was a personnel foul, that's a first down" I told him nope, sorry it's not. After the game, coach came to the locker room and asked me why PF weren't 1st downs. I told him there are 5 fouls in NFHS that are automatic 1st, can you name them? He said well PFs aren't, I see now...so it's defensive holding....I just stopped him, and told him what they were.

[Crash11]

Friday night I talk to visiting coach who wants to know this a number of odd things. Let's me know tonight's game is really a playoff game because the winner will have an inside track on a spot in lower-level pairings. In a previous game the white hat screwed up and it cost them the game.

Throughout the game, there are a couple of rulings, including a USC on the opponent on a scoring play which he wants to take on the kick, but it's on A, so they have to take it on the try. Again, he wants to know if I'm sure because a previous referee screwed up and it cost them big time. On and on about some game I had nothing to do with and can't do a thing about.

Finally, after the game I talk to him and he compliments my crew. I asked what happened in the other game. Turns out the game went to 4 OTs and the R flipped before each and every OT period. Not only that, but this coach's team lost every flip. I asked him how losing a flip lost the game, in light of losing the first three flips didn't lose it. He said it was done wrong (it was). It just still hurts, to lose that game on such a mistake. He's still hurting.

Then, almost as an after-thought he drops this little nugget. "Really, it shouldn't have mattered because we let them convert four 4th downs on their final drive and gave up a 26 yard TD on the last play of regulation, then didn't cover right and let them tie it with a 2 pt try to force overtime."

I guess that didn't matter nearly as much as the coin toss that shouldn't have been.

[KFox1979]

Last Thursday night I was working a Jr. High game....3rd quarter, running clock, the home team scoring on every possession. Coach backs off and finally puts his 7th graders in. After a couple of sacks and a false start they're 3rd and 20. Next play we get a PF facemask and after the walk off I signal 3rd down...He said "It was a personnel foul, that's a first down" I told him nope, sorry it's not. After the game, coach came to the locker room and asked me why PF weren't 1st downs. I told him there are 5 fouls in NFHS that are automatic 1st, can you name them? He said well PFs aren't, I see now...so it's defensive holding....I just stopped him, and told him what they were.

I'm guessing you are turning "roughing kicker/holder" into 2 fouls?

[busman]

We had a new twist of "twelve men in the huddle" Friday. 

"They can't huddle on the sideline, then come in and huddle on the field.  You can't huddle twice in one play."

[waltjp]

We had a new twist of "twelve men in the huddle" Friday. 

"They can't huddle on the sideline, then come in and huddle on the field.  You can't huddle twice in one play."

That would be a Double Huddle!

[busman]

To quote my 10 and under softball team I used to coach "Huddle, huddle, must be trouble!"

[azsteam]

Had a head coach tell me we had the wrong spot on a close 1st down play.  I was over near the sideline after a timeout and he told me the player step out short of the line to gain and was pointing to the spot where player step out.  I told him the player did stepped out where he was pointing but he had the ball stretched out to the line to gain.  That's why the other team got the 1st down.  Then he says thats fine but I just wanted to show you where he step out just in case and was still pointing to the ground

[yarnnelg]

We have an unwritten law. Mercy rule in effect, running clock. Team ahead with two timeouts left. Team trying to score one more time ....

There shall be no allowed timeouts used and there shall be no more scores ....... It's amazing how many holds suddenly appear ....

Had one coach screaming at me after the White Hat had shaken his head to disallow any more timeouts in the 45-0 drumming of an opponent. "I called time out ! I called time out !"
"Coach you can yell all you wish, only one person on this field grants time out, and you ain't it" "That's absolute Bull IT and you know it!" FLAG ! "That's one way to get a time out Coach, want to try for another?"     10 year olds on the sidelines....

So after the mark off, he calls a long pass for his offense .... Pass thrown deep (for 10 year olds) flag down in the backfield. Pass complete for a touchdown .... coming back for the hold .... "Absolute Bull $ !!!! You guys are cheating !" FLAG "And that ends your day Coach"
Coach left .... and we stood in the middle of the field watching the last two minutes run off the clock. Assistant comes up to me and asks. "Why were we preventing from scoring?" "It's called sportsmanship, if you don't have it, we enforce it."

[Dommer1]

I think you are walking in a minefield with that sort of officiating, just making stuff up and denying teams from their rights to take TO's. Sure, it sucks, and I guess you can get a bit stricter, but this is taking it too far in my opinion.

[GoodScout]

We have an unwritten law. Mercy rule in effect, running clock. Team ahead with two timeouts left. Team trying to score one more time ....

There shall be no allowed timeouts used and there shall be no more scores ....... It's amazing how many holds suddenly appear ....

Had one coach screaming at me after the White Hat had shaken his head to disallow any more timeouts in the 45-0 drumming of an opponent. "I called time out ! I called time out !"
"Coach you can yell all you wish, only one person on this field grants time out, and you ain't it" "That's absolute Bull IT and you know it!" FLAG ! "That's one way to get a time out Coach, want to try for another?"     10 year olds on the sidelines....

So after the mark off, he calls a long pass for his offense .... Pass thrown deep (for 10 year olds) flag down in the backfield. Pass complete for a touchdown .... coming back for the hold .... "Absolute Bull $ !!!! You guys are cheating !" FLAG "And that ends your day Coach"
Coach left .... and we stood in the middle of the field watching the last two minutes run off the clock. Assistant comes up to me and asks. "Why were we preventing from scoring?" "It's called sportsmanship, if you don't have it, we enforce it."

With all due respect, V, this type of officiating gives us all a bad name.

[blindref757]

I respectfully disagree.  I would never deny a TO in a varsity game.  I might try to quickly talk the coach out of it, or make him ask 2 or 3 times and pretend that I just didn't hear him.  But in a 10 year old game...we are often the only rational adults in the joint.  If it's 50-0 in a pop warner game, it's time to go get a coke and go home.

[WVOfficial]

I disagree, as well.  That's dangerous territory right there.  Varsity, I'm by the book.  WV has no mercy rule.  They can only agree to shorten the qtrs, and that has never happened with me.  So it is what it is.  We might do things like if it's a first down, be a little slower on stopping the clock. 

Youth league, I'll admit.  We roll the clock if things are out of hand.  If we notice a team running the score up on purpose......we don't go looking for penalties, but we start to call it like it's a Friday night.  If nothing is there, nothing is there.  We don't make things up.  But there better not be anything borderline (block in the backs, etc etc). 

It sucks that people display that kind of sportsmanship, but you could definitely go another route in trying to discourage it rather than the way you did.

One thing we do on the time outs is simply pull our wing guys in off the sideline.  That way.....sometimes they don't "hear" the time out called.  By the time they turn around to look to make sure it's the head coach, shoot........seconds have rolled off the clock.