foul reporting to referee

[jodibuck]

We had a spirited discussion at our first local clinic concerning reporting fouls to the referee.  We have always reported information on all fouls to the referee with no preliminary signal.  Our discussion was how our wing officials are to handle encroachment and false starts.  A new transfer member indicated his association wanted the wing official to signal from the sideline, instead of coming to the center of the field to notify the referee of the infraction.  What is the approved NFHS procedure?

[HLinNC]

There is no provision for signaling to the referee.  You come and report that foul.

Mr. New Transfer Guy needs to learn "When in Rome......."

[Rulesman]

The provision for the wing to signal to the Referee is an NCAA and NFL mechanic, and NOT an approved Federation mechanic.

[Ralph Damren]

We stress to our officials to verbalize the "4 Ws" to the white hat : Who, What,  Where & When

[prab]

The provision for the wing to signal to the Referee is an NCAA and NFL mechanic, and NOT an approved Federation mechanic.

Agree that it is not an NF approved mechanic.  But maybe it should be.

[HLinNC]

But maybe it should be.

And now we hippity hop down the rabbit hole!
<headsmack thingy>

[prab]

And now we hippity hop down the rabbit hole!
<headsmack thingy>

I confess that I have no idea what this means.

[Atlanta Blue]

I confess that I have no idea what this means.

Means we've been there before, there is often a heated argument, and it doesn't matter because nothing changes.

[Etref]

This is when the crew communication system with two ways comes in handy.

[Ump33]

From the 2012 – 2013 Officials Manual page 51 … (I have not seen the new manual, but I cannot imagine it has changed.)

ADMINISTERING PENALTIES
     VII. ALL GAME OFFICIALS
          A. Observe live-ball foul:
               1. Withhold whistle.
               2. Drop penalty marker at proper yard line and continue to observe play, noting location of ball at time of foul.
               3. When ball becomes dead:
                   a. Give time-out signal (S #3) twice.
                   b. Sound whistle.
               c. Verbally report information to referee.
                   d. Give no visible signal.     
                   e. Make mental note as to whether clock should be started on ready or on snap.
          D. Calling game official (umpire, linesman, line judge, back judge):
              1. After calling foul and ball has been declared dead:
                  a. Sound whistle and give time-out signal (S #3) twice.
                  b. Get referee’s attention by giving short blasts of whistle.
                  c. Make sure another game official is covering spot of foul.
                  d. Verbally report all information fully to referee:
               (1) Identify foul.
                   (2) Identify offending team including jersey color and offense/defense or kicking/receiving team.
                   (3) Identify offending player’s number or position.
                   (4) Indicate spot of foul, end of run or end of kick.
                   (5) Indicate status of ball when foul occurred.

[TampaSteve]

for DB fouls, I rather prefer the wings don't run all the way in when the guy watching the game on the radio can see the foul.
I believe everyone has the wings toss the flag to the side of the LOS who committed the foul?
R does not need the number so toss the flag to the side of the LOS occurred, hit the whistle, and signal.
R signals whole U walks it off and we hit the RFP.  as they said way back in the day "keep on truckin"

[HLinNC]

so toss the flag to the side of the LOS occurred,

To paraphrase Ron White- "I had the right.....but I didn't have the ability"

[Atlanta Blue]

I believe everyone has the wings toss the flag to the side of the LOS who committed the foul?

You think I (and every other coach worth his salt) doesn't know that trick?  And when I see one wing throw it on the defense and one throw it on the offense, your crew is about to have a bad day.  Or other secret signals like the U grabbing his whistle for a ball in the EZ, or wings signalling how many they have on the line on their side?  Secret signals aren't secret anymore, and lead to more trouble than they solve.

Drop the flag, and report the foul privately.  That way we don't know you can't agree on the call.

[Rulesman]

Agree that it is not an NF approved mechanic.  But maybe it should be.

Why?

[VALJ]

Drop the flag, and report the foul privately.  That way we don't know you can't agree on the call.

I agree.  About 1000%.

[Johnponz]

Agreed.  Don't cut corners. 

NCAA and NFL are worried about game time for TV (no such worry in HS)

[jgf6]

Even though it is not an NF mechanic, we in AZ have adopted the mechanic of wings signaling false stars and encroachments. If we have one flag down the wing will come on to the field towards the R and signal the infraction. If we have two flags down, from the wings, we have a signal between them that the foul is on the offense or defense. If they both have the same foul, the LJ will come in to signal the infraction. If they don't, they will come to the middle of the field and determine which foul occurred first. If three flags are down, includes the U mostly, then all three will meet in the middle of the field and the U will signal the infraction. This signaling of fouls are only on false starts and encroachments. All other fouls are reported to the R in the manner you are discussing. We all like it and it seems to speed up the game some.   

[Atlanta Blue]

RT Johnny jumps before the snap.  Everyone in the park saw RT Johnny jump before the snap, including his blind grandmother in the top row.  Ball is on the left hash, left handed QB so the R is even farther left.  Under current mechanics, the LJ now has to run about 40 yards from his sideline on the right side of the field to go meet the R to tell him something that everyone in the stadium knows, most of all Johnny who is slapping himself in the helmet.

Sometimes, the letter of the book doesn't make the most sense.

[Johnponz]

Of course if it is obvious R just signals and no one reports.  This can all be done with a look from the R and a nod from the L or H.  There is no issue with that

[Legacy Zebra]

If we have two flags down, from the wings, we have a signal between them that the foul is on the offense or defense.

Personal opinion: I don't like this. Coaches know these signals too and will know that you don't agree on the call. If you both have flags just come in and have a quick word, most of the time it takes 20 seconds tops from flag to announcement.

[jgf6]

Legacy, I agree with you but the signal between wings is our own and, to my knowledge, has never been seen by a coach. Our signal is not a normal football signal. It's just a quick point to the team that fouled and it is quickly given by each. If they point to the same team that fouled, the LJ will head towards the R and give the signal. If they signal opposite teams, they continue in to determine who fouled. Each can easily see the others point and it has been, so far, quick and easy. Even if a coach figures out what we are doing we will explain what we did and how we determined who fouled. Not much different than any other foul we have to explain.

[Rulesman]

...Our signal is not a normal football signal. It's just a quick point to the team that fouled...

You are kidding yourself if you think coaches won't pick up on that.

[Atlanta Blue]

It's just a quick point to the team that fouled and it is quickly given by each.

If officials aren't using the "drop the flag on the side of the team that fouled", then this is the next thing that we would see (or touch the side of the face of the team that fouled, or use the arm of the side of the fouling team across your chest or to the belt buckle, seen those too).

And if you signal white and your partner signals red, you've just told the coaches that the two of you couldn't even agree on who fouled.  Sure, you can explain how you reached your decision, but why even put yourself in that spot, it's not a good conversation to have to have.  If there's two flags down, don't signal anything and just go report.  That way, the coaches never know you weren't on the same page.

[Ralph Damren]

Our goal is to get the call right and on occasion we have dueling flags for "a tie" on quick trips into the NZ. With a quick conference, the white hat can correct the situation by ruling false start on A. B can be moving forward prior to the snap while A can't. Another reason why wings shouldn't use the penalty signal.

[VALJ]

Our goal is to get the call right and on occasion we have dueling flags for "a tie" on quick trips into the NZ. With a quick conference, the white hat can correct the situation by ruling false start on A. B can be moving forward prior to the snap while A can't. Another reason why wings shouldn't use the penalty signal.

Or, with young officials, they may get a bit confused on encroachment/ false start.  Had a young official come in after a flag and tell he had a false start on A, because B jumped into the neutral zone, but got back before A moved.  I asked him "does it matter if B gets back in high school ball"?  He thought for a second and said "I've got encroachment on B, then."  I smiled and said "all right, then" and we moved on. 

How much time does it really take to get both officials to job in to the middle and confirm which way the penalty is going, even on the obvious ones?  I'd rather take a few seconds, and prevent the coaches chewing on my posterior the rest of the night because we couldn't even agree on a simple false start...