Author Topic: any news? (Read 24954 times)

busman · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2012, 07:58:03 AM »

"It works very well for the H/LJ who can see down the line for jumping on players just fine. It also allows them to easily beat a runner to the GL and GL extended, which is nearly impossible for the H/LJ if they are under an upright."

In the current mechanic, you still have the H to watch for encroachment fouls. U favors the LJ side, and depending on location, will move up or back to the goal line (up for a standard PAT, back for a longer FG) to determine penetration between him and the LJ sideline. This is the one instance where U can signal TD. When the LJ determines it is not a kick, he goes straight down the end line to the sideline where he has boundary only coverage. LJ and U make eye contact on anything close to that side before signaling.

jjseikel · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:05:11 PM »

Quote from: waltjp on January 30, 2012, 09:08:36 PM

Now that was just uncalled for!

RickKY · « **Reply #27 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:00:52 PM »

As an umpire who works under the post on all scoring kicks inside the 15 I can attest that it works just fine. Wings have better coverage on the outside if the snap or kick goes bad or is a fake. The U can rule on snap infractions, protect the snapper, and once the ball crosses the end line I can still watch for extra activity in the middle.

Rulesman · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:52:16 PM »

Quote from: AP on January 31, 2012, 12:14:01 PM

Okay so it's classified as Illegal Personal Contact in 9-4-3-e.

9-4-3-e is not leaping.

bossman72 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2012, 12:20:10 PM »

Quote from: TampaSteve on January 27, 2012, 03:34:24 PM

good points bus.

Rarely do I see a foul after the kick is in the air. The U can see this from this position on the end line. Wings can crash in after the kick is gone and clean up.

Statistically speaking, I've seen more kick plays break down than crap happen in the middle. I like the U under the post mechanic.

Rulesman · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:54:52 PM »

Quote from: bossman72 on February 01, 2012, 12:20:10 PM

Rarely do I see a foul after the kick is in the air. The U can see this from this position on the end line.

So is he watching for a foul down low, or is he focused on the post up high? He can't do both in less than 2 seconds.

LAZebra · « **Reply #31 on:** February 02, 2012, 08:06:08 AM »

Word on the street is that 14 proposals made it out of the sub-committees and 8 were passed. It will be interesting to see if any are significant or more editorial in nature. It would also be very interesting to know what the six were that did not pass.

TampaSteve · « **Reply #32 on:** February 03, 2012, 09:02:47 AM »

Quote from: AP on February 03, 2012, 07:05:01 AM

Word is that one change is making it illegal for K to block until they are eligible to posses the kick. Just like college.

hopefully this was a pun.

Magician · « **Reply #33 on:** February 03, 2012, 11:05:33 AM »

Quote from: bossman72 on February 01, 2012, 12:20:10 PM

Rarely do I see a foul after the kick is in the air. The U can see this from this position on the end line. Wings can crash in after the kick is gone and clean up.

Statistically speaking, I've seen more kick plays break down than crap happen in the middle. I like the U under the post mechanic.

Seriously? I think I can count on one hand the number of fake or aborted FG/tries we had all last season but there are at least a few FG/tries each game where guys continue to rumble after the ball has been kicked and me getting in there right away helps diffuse it and get the guys back to their sidelines. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I wasn't in there immediately with my voice.

If you are willing to take the risk of guys self-policing in the middle of the big-uglies you'll be fine. From my experience at U if I'm not in the pile (even on regular scrimmage plays) with my voice on every down, things get chippy really quick.

jjseikel · « **Reply #34 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:27:28 PM »

Quote from: Magician on February 03, 2012, 11:05:33 AM

Seriously? I think I can count on one hand the number of fake or aborted FG/tries we had all last season but there are at least a few FG/tries each game where guys continue to rumble after the ball has been kicked and me getting in there right away helps diffuse it and get the guys back to their sidelines. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I wasn't in there immediately with my voice.

If you are willing to take the risk of guys self-policing in the middle of the big-uglies you'll be fine. From my experience at U if I'm not in the pile (even on regular scrimmage plays) with my voice on every down, things get chippy really quick.

I'll have to agree with the Magic man. This is what our Umpires experience year in and year out.

AP · « **Reply #35 on:** February 06, 2012, 03:40:58 PM »

The mechanic requires both the H and LJ to crash in once the ball is kicked. We were able to stop any chippyness that happened...but honestly I don't recall it happening once. We did however have broken plays/bad snaps.

RickKY · « **Reply #36 on:** February 07, 2012, 01:34:37 PM »

Quote from: Magician on February 03, 2012, 11:05:33 AM

Seriously? I think I can count on one hand the number of fake or aborted FG/tries we had all last season but there are at least a few FG/tries each game where guys continue to rumble after the ball has been kicked and me getting in there right away helps diffuse it and get the guys back to their sidelines. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I wasn't in there immediately with my voice.

If you are willing to take the risk of guys self-policing in the middle of the big-uglies you'll be fine. From my experience at U if I'm not in the pile (even on regular scrimmage plays) with my voice on every down, things get chippy really quick.

FG attempts are few in prep football anyway. Mostly this mechanic applies to PATs. While I der the post I can easily see action at the snap, notcie the trajectory of the kick, look up and make the call, then bring eyes back down to the LOS while signalling. There just isn't that much activity to flag anyway. KHSAA has been using this mechanic for years and no problems have been reported, other than a preference for the old mechanic by a few.

And if you haave a short FG, the extra yards are not that big of a deal for umpires. But having two wings is a benefit when that play heads for the pylon. If the kick goes as planned, the wings crashing in form the sides can control anything the U misses in the second or 2 he's looking up the post.

I watch for the snap (infraction) and protect the snapper. Look up, look back down, then signal result while continuing to officiate the middle, with help from the wings. If the trajectory of the kick is to the opposite post, I don't even look up, and let the BJ make the call.

Magician · « **Reply #37 on:** February 08, 2012, 05:45:33 PM »

Quote from: RickKY on February 07, 2012, 01:34:37 PM

FG attempts are few in prep football anyway. Mostly this mechanic applies to PATs. While I der the post I can easily see action at the snap, notcie the trajectory of the kick, look up and make the call, then bring eyes back down to the LOS while signalling. There just isn't that much activity to flag anyway. KHSAA has been using this mechanic for years and no problems have been reported, other than a preference for the old mechanic by a few.

And if you haave a short FG, the extra yards are not that big of a deal for umpires. But having two wings is a benefit when that play heads for the pylon. If the kick goes as planned, the wings crashing in form the sides can control anything the U misses in the second or 2 he's looking up the post.

I watch for the snap (infraction) and protect the snapper. Look up, look back down, then signal result while continuing to officiate the middle, with help from the wings. If the trajectory of the kick is to the opposite post, I don't even look up, and let the BJ make the call.

I very rarely flag anything either. That's not the point. It's more about getting in there with my voice immediately to prevent unnecessary action. I know I've prevented several incidents from escalating by having a presence. The wings would not be able to get there fast enough for that.

In 12 years of doing this I think I can still count on one hand the number of times a scrimmage kick scoring play resulted in any threat on a pylon or sideline. I don't think having the U on the upright is a horrible mechanic that should never be used. I just prefer to play the percentages. 5-man mechanics leave a hole somewhere on every play. I like to play the percentages when considering which mechanics are the best. Given these two options I'll pick the option that covers something that happens 2-3 times per game than something that happens 5 times in 12 years.

Tom.OH · « **Reply #38 on:** February 08, 2012, 06:17:55 PM »

Our Ohio mechanics call for the wings to be at the numbers (ball in the middle, if ball on hash we move out) and we come into the line to cover dead ball action after the kick is made. We have not had any problems with the mechanic (well so far at least...).

RickKY · « **Reply #39 on:** February 09, 2012, 01:07:22 PM »

Magician, after several years of this mechanic in KHSAA, I have heard no compaints from officials or coaches about it. I believe you're overthinking this. I'm not saying it's the only mechanic that works, but that it does work.

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #40 on:** February 09, 2012, 05:50:08 PM »

Quote from: RickKY on February 07, 2012, 01:34:37 PM

FG attempts are few in prep football anyway. Mostly this mechanic applies to PATs.

Few and far between? We were 16 of 17 on FG's this year, and only attempted 24 PATs.

You need better kickers (or kicking coaches!).

bossman72 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 09, 2012, 10:37:06 PM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on February 09, 2012, 05:50:08 PM

Few and far between? We were 16 of 17 on FG's this year, and only attempted 24 PATs.

You need better kickers (or kicking coaches!).

It definitely would help, but I think you're the only HS kicking coach I've ever heard of

(assuming you coach kickers and that is all)

Your school must have a very nice budget to afford a kicking coach. haha.

jjseikel · « **Reply #42 on:** February 16, 2012, 12:33:40 PM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on February 09, 2012, 05:50:08 PM

Few and far between? We were 16 of 17 on FG's this year, and only attempted 24 PATs.

You need better kickers (or kicking coaches!).

In 12 games this past season, our crew only had 5 or 6 FG attempts to officiate. Very minor part of most HS games. Maybe it's that teams in Oklahoma score TDs instead of FGs!

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #43 on:** February 16, 2012, 12:40:07 PM »

Quote from: Jaybird on February 16, 2012, 12:33:40 PM

In 12 games this past season, our crew only had 5 or 6 FG attempts to officiate. Very minor part of most HS games. Maybe it's that teams in Oklahoma score TDs instead of FGs!

That or you punt if you are outside the 25 yard line!

If we cross midfield, we're getting the FG team ready. If we reach the 35, we have points in the bank.

TampaSteve · « **Reply #44 on:** February 16, 2012, 12:53:57 PM »

I think the longest FG I saw this year was +/-42 yds.
(If I'm not mistaken, it was the longest attempted from the games I worked too)
Round my parts, kickers isn't so much an area of expertise.

Magician · « **Reply #45 on:** February 16, 2012, 05:00:05 PM »

Quote from: TampaSteve on February 16, 2012, 12:53:57 PM

I think the longest FG I saw this year was +/-42 yds.
(If I'm not mistaken, it was the longest attempted from the games I worked too)
Round my parts, kickers isn't so much an area of expertise.

I almost got to signal a successful 58-yard FG in Lucas Oil Stadium. He was about 4 yards short. Nice kick for a HS player! We had a few 45+ but most are within 30 yards.

golfingref · « **Reply #46 on:** February 16, 2012, 06:44:43 PM »

At a small 2A school in Arkansas this fall. Exchange student from Germany landed in this coach's lap. Best athlete on the team. Ran the ball, caught the ball, and nailed a 49 yard FG on the first possession with room to spare. Longest one I have seen in high school.

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #47 on:** February 16, 2012, 06:59:48 PM »

Longest my kicker had in a game this year was 51, and he nailed it with 7 or 8 yards to spare. His only miss (out of 17) was from 59 in the Georgia Dome, where he went brain dead, and came up about 4-5 yards short ("I didn't realize what yard line we were on, Coach.") 9 of his made FGs were 41 yards or more. Made a 49 in a steady rain one night, on a grass field.

He has hit a 63 in practice, but there was no rush coming at him!

He played in the Georgia Rising Seniors Bowl game in December (an All Star game for juniors). I nominated him for the game, and found out that his first nomination came from an official. The official was the cousin of one of the game organizers, and called his cuz after week one of the season and said, "Found a kicker for your game".

And yes, I understand he is the exception, but even last year we were 12 for 15 on field goals (long of 47). Field goals are a significant part of our game plan.

Video available upon request!

Curious · « **Reply #48 on:** February 17, 2012, 11:48:04 AM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on February 16, 2012, 06:59:48 PM

He has hit a 63 in practice, but there was no rush coming at him!

He may not have had a rush coming at him; but I bet he has a "rush of recruiters" coming at him....

jjseikel · « **Reply #49 on:** February 17, 2012, 12:37:11 PM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on February 16, 2012, 12:40:07 PM

If we reach the 35, we have points in the bank.

Dang!! 52 yard FGs are automatic!?!

I don't think that is the case in college or the NFL but then again they don't have a famous, movie star kicking coach!

Author Topic: any news? (Read 24954 times)

busman

jjseikel

RickKY

jjseikel

AP

RickKY

RickKY

jjseikel

jjseikel