Officials' error calls back go-ahead touchdown

[Central PA Ref]

What is interesting to me is this: Is it fair to the other team to play the end of the game over? Can you simulate the same field conditions, player conditions (what if one team was in better physical shape?) and who on earth will officiate the end of the game? One would assume they couldn't possibly have the same crew come back??? And so different officials with different styles too...

I guess my point is..if you go back to that point in the game and redo the finish it isn't really the same as had they got the call right to start with and finished it that night.... it is a lose lose situation.

[ncwingman]

And the whole coach/referee conference issue has been discussed.  It is now a 'he said/she said' on what the conference was about and whether the coach was questioning the enforcement or the call.

I don't think that matters from a court-of-law perspective. The issue the court will decide is if procedure was followed -- i.e., there was a conference, if requested. The outcome of the conference can't be disputed, even if it was wrong, because the NFHS rules are not legally enforceable.

Can you imagine if a court could get involved because of a disputed OPI on the game winning touchdown pass and rule on whether or not it was actually OPI?

[prab]

Can you imagine if a court could get involved because of a disputed OPI on the game winning touchdown pass and rule on whether or not it was actually OPI?

Unfortunately I can imagine such a scenario coming to a court near one of us, with some attorney who has never officiated even a Pee Wee game arguing that the (possibly/probably racist) officials engaged in a vast conspiracy to give the game to the obviously undeserving team on a bogus OPI call.  Evidence would include the offending player's mother's cousin's cell phone video taken from the parking lot.   

[Txgarza]

Even after this fiasco, I'm watching Skiatook v. MacArthur game. And the sidelines in this game are congested. Coaches on the field when their team is close to the goaline, fans or personnel close to the action along the field.

[bama_stripes]

And the whole coach/referee conference issue has been discussed.  It is now a 'he said/she said' on what the conference was about and whether the coach was questioning the enforcement or the call.

But that doesn't matter.  Assume the coach DID question the enforcement, and the referee stuck with the original call.  Obviously, that's incorrect.  Obviously, the crew will get sanctioned.  The procedures were followed correctly, and thus there's no reason for a court to overrule the OHSAA.

[Ralph Damren]

Statute of limitations on  screw-ups :

  Obvious timing error : may be corrected prior to second live ball.

  Wrong down : can be corrected before the series ended - 5th down would revert back to result of 4th down play.

  Wrong spot - wrong chains set : can be corrected prior to snap.

  C-R conference : Prior to next live ball unless period had officially ended. Witness to prevent "he said/he said" situation : wing official from coach's sideline.

  Courts/judges/lawyers are to deal with bad people doing bad things or someone hurting someone else .

 As an aside... yesterday, after some new fallen snow, a hockey game developed in the vacant lot next to our home. . The players were pre-teens, the goal was a shopping cart "borrowed" from the supermarket close-by, the puck appeared to be some sort of a dogie toy, their sticks ranged from brooms,plastic shovels to whiffle bats.

The game lasted for a couple of hours WITHOUT any coaches,commissioners, referees or parents . They all seemed to have fun and the losing team had to return the shopping cart . It brought back good memories of my days of youth when we used to behave as such. Glad to see it still can occur and WITHOUT adult involvement.

[VALJ]

  C-R conference : Prior to next live ball unless period had officially ended. Witness to prevent "he said/he said" situation : wing official from coach's sideline.

Which for the lawyer turns the whole thing into a conspiracy (racist or not) by the crew instead of just an issue with one official.  Plus, the wing official as the "witness" would be the one who threw the flag to begin with anyway.   

As an aside... yesterday, after some new fallen snow, a hockey game developed in the vacant lot next to our home. . The players were pre-teens, the goal was a shopping cart "borrowed" from the supermarket close-by, the puck appeared to be some sort of a dogie toy, their sticks ranged from brooms,plastic shovels to whiffle bats.

The game lasted for a couple of hours WITHOUT any coaches,commissioners, referees or parents . They all seemed to have fun and the losing team had to return the shopping cart . It brought back good memories of my days of youth when we used to behave as such. Glad to see it still can occur and WITHOUT adult involvement.

As a long-time Little League coach and umpire, I've long wished that we could tell the parents to drop their kids off and leave, or that they only thing that they can say is positive cheering.  Adults just screw up kids' games.

[CalhounLJ]

Which for the lawyer turns the whole thing into a conspiracy (racist or not) by the crew instead of just an issue with one official.  Plus, the wing official as the "witness" would be the one who threw the flag to begin with anyway.   

As a long-time Little League coach and umpire, I've long wished that we could tell the parents to drop their kids off and leave, or that they only thing that they can say is positive cheering.  Adults just screw up kids' games.

This.


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[TXMike]

http://m.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/highschools/footballhs/judge-will-rule-thursday-in-locust-grove-douglass-case/article_61103aa0-9829-539b-8063-24f0a43a1b2c.html?mode=jqm

No decision yet but maybe tomorrow

[SouthGARef]

Judge ruled in favor of the OSSAA and the result will stand.

[APG]

http://newsok.com/douglass-locust-grove-judge-denies-douglass-request-for-injunction/article/5374965

Here is a PDF of the judge's filing:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/documents/OSSAADouglass.pdf

[Phantomref]

  Wrong down : can be corrected before the series ended - 5th down would revert back to result of 4th down play.

 


[/quote]

"revert back"?

Does that mean the situation remains as it is currently? 

[FLAHL]

Judge ruled in favor of the OSSAA and the result will stand.

This entire situation is unfortunate, and I feel for the kids who don't get to move on in the playoffs.  However, I'm happy to see the judge decide that the result will stand.  Any other ruling could have started us down a slippery slope that I don't think any of us would have enjoyed.

[Wingmanbp]

I agree and as we all can contest to that there is no way of knowing that the team that lost would have been able to hold on. There was still 104 left in the game and we know how quick teams can score or leads can change. Case in point Plano vs John Tyler what 20 years ago I believe.

[shooter1]

 I almost get the feeling that many folks do not consider this penalty an important call.  Just go and look at the court proceedings in Texas that led to the sideline changes--if you were called into a court of law, could you and your crew stand on the fact that you had done everything possible to keep the sidelines clean?

You always feel badly in these kind of situations.  It happened and you have to go on--replaying the game from the last minute on in is not an option.

My encouragement is that you take sideline maintenance seriously.

[Ralph Damren]

Ole' Mainer proverb: "If da' dawg hadn't stop to squart, he mighta' caught da' fox" 

All our lives are full of "what ifs" , "should haves" , "if only" and the likes. IMHO, to put it behind us and move on only makes us stronger. Several years ago I went to visit a very good friend...that very good friend had a son who was a very good hockey player. The son knew I was an official and had this story:

" Ralph, I had an awful call made aginst me last night ! I had a breakaway and was sailing in alone on the goalie, when I was tripped from behind. I went sprawling into the goalie, knocking him down and the goal off it's morings. Hearing the ref's whistle, I figured I was going to be awarded a penalty shot until I looked up . The ref hadn't seen the trip and was hitting me with a 5 minute major and ejection for roughing the goalie . Because of that I can't play in the next game....."

     at that point, dad stepped in and replied......

"Son, life is full of bad calls and tough breaks. The strong winners put it behind them get more determined and move on...the weak losers dwell on the bad calls and tough breaks and blame all their future failures on them. You've got a choice to make : (1) You can sit out a game, blame the rest of your medicore season on that bad call and carry that attitude on into life after school; OR (2) You can sit out a game and get more determined to make this your best season ever "
  The dad put his hand on his son's shoulder and then asked :

"So, it's your choice, son, do you want to continue to grow as a winner, or begin to slide as a loser??"

The son hugged his dad and responded: "I'm a winner, dad, and I'll always be !!"

The dad and I then had a beer

Epilogue : The son led his team is scoring and made first team all-state. He attended a very prestigious New England University where he was Suta Com Larde in Engineering, today he's married with two children and very successful.
The dad passed in 2004, but I remember those words well and recall them when events such as this occur.

   Rest In Peace : Nick Susi (1947-2004) a very good friend, a very great dad

[HLinNC]

A very rare father today, Ralph, sadly.

[george7244]

Ole' Mainer proverb: "If da' dawg hadn't stop to squart, he mighta' caught da' fox" 

All our lives are full of "what ifs" , "should haves" , "if only" and the likes. IMHO, to put it behind us and move on only makes us stronger. Several years ago I went to visit a very good friend...that very good friend had a son who was a very good hockey player. The son knew I was an official and had this story:

" Ralph, I had an awful call made aginst me last night ! I had a breakaway and was sailing in alone on the goalie, when I was tripped from behind. I went sprawling into the goalie, knocking him down and the goal off it's morings. Hearing the ref's whistle, I figured I was going to be awarded a penalty shot until I looked up . The ref hadn't seen the trip and was hitting me with a 5 minute major and ejection for roughing the goalie . Because of that I can't play in the next game....."

     at that point, dad stepped in and replied......

"Son, life is full of bad calls and tough breaks. The strong winners put it behind them get more determined and move on...the weak losers dwell on the bad calls and tough breaks and blame all their future failures on them. You've got a choice to make : (1) You can sit out a game, blame the rest of your medicore season on that bad call and carry that attitude on into life after school; OR (2) You can sit out a game and get more determined to make this your best season ever "
  The dad put his hand on his son's shoulder and then asked :

"So, it's your choice, son, do you want to continue to grow as a winner, or begin to slide as a loser??"

The son hugged his dad and responded: "I'm a winner, dad, and I'll always be !!"

The dad and I then had a beer

Epilogue : The son led his team is scoring and made first team all-state. He attended a very prestigious New England University where he was Suta Com Larde in Engineering, today he's married with two children and very successful.
The dad passed in 2004, but I remember those words well and recall them when events such as this occur.
    Thats powerful
   Rest In Peace : Nick Susi (1947-2004) a very good friend, a very great dad

[BBref]

Watched a video today from CBS on this story in which the opening frame makes it look like the QB has his entire face painted black. Am I seeing it wrong, or was this permitted?

[FLAHL]

Watched a video today from CBS on this story in which the opening frame makes it look like the QB has his entire face painted black. Am I seeing it wrong, or was this permitted?

BBref, your post sounded so interesting (strange?) that I had to see for myself. So I googled "cbs Douglass Locust Grove" and found the clip. You're exactly right. At the end of the clip, the video freezes on the kid's face, and you can clearly see what you pointed out. 

[SD_Casey]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-judge-to-rule-on-high-school-football-game-call/

1:05

[NoVaBJ]

Right ddecision by the court.

That said, with the permitted face painting and the botched sideline enforcement, these five officials are bozos and have done all of us a disservice. Call this stuff correctly from the start.

[BBref]

FWIW, the same mistake was made in the Pennsylvania 4A championship on Saturday, but with much less impact. A down was replayed after enforcement of a USC foul. But the original 3rd down play was an incomplete pass and the replay was well short of the first down. So it only added an extra play, and the defense quickly scored after the punt anyway.

So 2 lessons:

But for the grace of God. ...

And officials will always make mistakes; we can only hope ours will not have an impact on the game's outcome.

[Curious]

Watched a video today from CBS on this story in which the opening frame makes it look like the QB has his entire face painted black. Am I seeing it wrong, or was this permitted?

BBref, your post sounded so interesting (strange?) that I had to see for myself. So I googled "cbs Douglass Locust Grove" and found the clip. You're exactly right. At the end of the clip, the video freezes on the kid's face, and you can clearly see what you pointed out. 

Right ddecision by the court.

That said, with the permitted face painting and the botched sideline enforcement, these five officials are bozos and have done all of us a disservice. Call this stuff correctly from the start.

We can all concede the egregious error regarding the enforcement of the "sideline" foul; but FACE PAINTING? Really?  No need to quote 1-5-3c3; I read it and looked for some related Case play and found no specific reference to face painting (maybe I missed it). Do we actually consider this "extended eye shade"?  Does it really matter to anybody/anything?  Was there any racial or offensive meaning inferred/mentioned/written (and is it up to us to make that determination)? Is there a safety issue? Was any advantage gained?  Did anybody involved in the game care?

I suppose the State could adopt another superfluous rule for us to have to watch for (did everyone check the gloves and mouthpiece colors?).        

[Rulesman]

Don't laugh. I know of at least one state that has a rule against face painting.