"Tack On" Status Report

[prab]

Wisconsin is 3 weeks into our 9 week regular season schedule.  So far, my crew has seen two KOs go out of bounds, untouched by R, above the 30 yard line, thus qualifying for the new rule "tack on" provision.  We have not had any other situation where the new rule would apply.

Has anyone had any other such situation?  Did it cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth, or was it smooth sailing?  Any double turn overs which occurred "during the kick down" but after the kick ended?

In other words, even though we seem to agree that what the NFHS said they wanted to accomplish was to reduce the number of re-kicks, is not actually what the new rule says, has it had any major impact on a game?

[ncwingman]

I've had one short KO OOB that we could tack on the 5 yards and one punt with an illegal formation (one of the linemen forgot he was on the punt team, so they only had a 6 man line) that they added the 5 yards at the end of the kick (R just fell on the rolling ball, so no return to speak of). Other than that, I've had a couple long KO OOB where R elected to take +25 and one where R elected to rekick.

No crazy plays or coaches wondering what was going on.

I'd imagine we'll see a lot more OOB+5 spots with onside kicks, and most of the early games around here have been very uneven out of conference matchups, so those situations really haven't happened yet.

[SouthGARef]

One kick OOB at the 33, tacked on to the 38. One punt with an illegal formation that went for about 50 yards with no return. Receiving team elected to rekick. One punt with an illegal formation where the receiving team elected to tack on to the end of the kick.

No issues with any of the enforcements. Crew comms help. Coaches didn't say anything. Probably didn't even know what we were doing was any different than before.

[bama_stripes]

One KO OOB at the R-31 tacked on.  Must admit it startled me to see the ball placed at the “wrong” yardline.

[1Cor9:25]

2 games. 1 each with a KOB that the +5 was best option.

[Ralph Damren]

We felt that the rule change option would arise more often than some other changes we've made. IMHO, the two situations that will occur the most are:

(1) Free kick OOB, untouched by R. IMHO, just give the options of re-kicking with 5, or whichever is the most advantageous - the 25 yd award or the OOB spot with 5.

(2) IF for 6 man line -big ole' Bubba forgot he shoulda' been in - re-kick with 5 or tack on to succeeding spot.

We've had a couple of OOB's and 1 IF in my two games ,so far. Ayuh, 'spect it'll keep happening. Ayuh ,'spect we'll be ready.

PS: Lays Potato Chips now come in lobster roll favor. 

[Magoopm]

I kicked one this weekend.  Had an illegal formation on K and did not give R the 5 yard option.  Just 5 yards back and re kick or at the spot.  And to make it worse at halftime a coach from the previous game pointed that out to me, very politely I do have to say.  He asked if R should have had that option.  I tried to recruit him to be a ref but he said he would be coaching for the foreseeable future.

[Ralph Damren]

I kicked one this weekend.  Had an illegal formation on K and did not give R the 5 yard option.  Just 5 yards back and re kick or at the spot.  And to make it worse at halftime a coach from the previous game pointed that out to me, very politely I do have to say.  He asked if R should have had that option.  I tried to recruit him to be a ref but he said he would be coaching for the foreseeable future.

Welcome, Magoopm, to our forum. I hope you'll find it both interesting and informative. Illegal formation (less then 4 on each side of kicker/non-kicker being 5+yards off) is a dead ball foul and the play should be shut down the second the ball is kicked. 5 yards & rekick is the only option.

[UTchad]

I had a +5 in a close game last friday that happened on an onsides attempt. Kicking coach was a confused but when I told him about the new rule, his comment was "oh yea"

we played on.

[markrischard]

Welcome, Magoopm, to our forum. I hope you'll find it both interesting and informative. Illegal formation (less then 4 on each side of kicker/non-kicker being 5+yards off) is a dead ball foul and the play should be shut down the second the ball is kicked. 5 yards & rekick is the only option.

We don't know if this was a scrimmage or free kick.

[Ralph Damren]

We don't know if this was a scrimmage or free kick.

Good job, Markrichard, my bad. I was assuming it was a free kick, without any reason to assume so. Thanks for your correction.

 

[KWH]

4th and 5 on the A-41 yard line.
K's punt is blocked at the K-32, caroms backward, pickup by big ole R99 and advanced to the K-24 yard line where he is downed by two guys with a large thud.

Two Flags on the play:
1 - Illegal Formation by K (6 on the line (- 10 players))
2 - PF Facemask on K55 (During the mad scramble and while the ball was loose)


I thought to myself - Oh sh*t - Here we go!
I announced, "There are two fouls on the play, both by the kicking team. Illegal Formation is declined; Personal Foul Facemask on player #55;
half the distance will be enforced from the end of the return, 1st and 10 for Westview at the 12 yard line!"
My Line Judge came running in to tell me "The kick never crossed the line!"
I said "Well that's good information Ed but it is not a requirement in NFHS!".
Ed said, "Well it is in College!" 
I said, "Well that's good Ed, I strongly suggest you don't tack it on tomorrow!"

In all seriousness, It was a good heads up test for both of us to put our heads together and get it right.
Restated; Never pass up on information, just make sure you get the enforcement correct after you think it thru.

[CalhounLJ]

I had two tack on opportunities last night, one against the home team, one against the visitor. Both were punts, both were 5yd fouls at the snap. Both times, the coach elected to take enforcement at previous spot and rekick.

[prab]

Now that the 2018 season is over, or almost over in some parts of the country, I would like to rekindle this thread.

Did anyone have any plays related to the new rule that caused any significant problems?  Did the difference between "during the kick" and "during the kick down" cause any major disruptions in the space time continuum?

Does anyone believe that this 2018 rule change needs to be tweeked for 2019?

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, I feel we are getting a good handle on it . The term "kick down" refers to everything prior to the kick ending. Remember, once R has gained possession the kick has ended and the all-but-one becomes the basic spot.

[Ump33]

IMHO, I feel we are getting a good handle on it . The term "kick down" refers to everything prior to the kick ending. Remember, once R has gained possession the kick has ended and the all-but-one becomes the basic spot.

Unfortunately in NC we have been instructed the term "kick down" means from the time the ball is snapped until the end of the down.

[bossman72]

IMHO, I feel we are getting a good handle on it . The term "kick down" refers to everything prior to the kick ending. Remember, once R has gained possession the kick has ended and the all-but-one becomes the basic spot.

Editorial change should be made to say "kick loose ball play" or something similar.

[Ump33]

Editorial change should be made to say "kick loose ball play" or something similar.

Also state that the “tack-on” does not apply in overtime, same as PSK.

[HLinNC]

Editorial change should be made to say "kick loose ball play" or something similar.

How about  "until the ball is possessed by R or the kick otherwise ends by rule"?

[prab]

IMHO, I feel we are getting a good handle on it . The term "kick down" refers to everything prior to the kick ending. Remember, once R has gained possession the kick has ended and the all-but-one becomes the basic spot.

I agree that this is probably what the rules changers meant.  I also agree that most of us using this forum believe that this is the way it should be.  HOWEVER, that is simply NOT what the 2018 rule change says.  It specifically says "during a free or scrimmage kick down".  That is why I believe that the rule needs to be tweeked.  Maybe it's as simple as removing the word "down".

[Ump33]

I agree that this is probably what the rules changers meant.  I also agree that most of us using this forum believe that this is the way it should be.  HOWEVER, that is simply NOT what the 2018 rule change says.  It specifically says "during a free or scrimmage kick down".  That is why I believe that the rule needs to be tweeked.  Maybe it's as simple as removing the word "down".

On page 99 of the Rule Book, the comments on the new “tack-on rule” clearly states: “… the committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks.”  Unfortunately there are those that will not use the entire rule book to properly interpret the rule correctly.  I have also asked for a rule book definition of a “scrimmage kick down” and no one has been able to provide the definition.

COMMENTS ON THE 2018 RULES CHANGES

NEW PENALTY OPTION ADOPTED FOR FOULS BY KICKING TEAM [6-1-9b (NEW), 6-1-9b PENALTY (NEW), 10-4-2 EXCEPTION (NEW), 10-5-1j (NEW)] — In an effort to reduce re-kicks, further minimize risk and ensure that appropriate penalties are in place for all fouls, the committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks. The change would allow the receiving team all of the previous options as well as accepting the distance penalty at the end of the down.

[SCline]

On page 99 of the Rule Book, the comments on the new “tack-on rule” clearly states: “… the committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks.”  Unfortunately there are those that will not use the entire rule book to properly interpret the rule correctly.  I have also asked for a rule book definition of a “scrimmage kick down” and no one has been able to provide the definition.

COMMENTS ON THE 2018 RULES CHANGES

NEW PENALTY OPTION ADOPTED FOR FOULS BY KICKING TEAM [6-1-9b (NEW), 6-1-9b PENALTY (NEW), 10-4-2 EXCEPTION (NEW), 10-5-1j (NEW)] — In an effort to reduce re-kicks, further minimize risk and ensure that appropriate penalties are in place for all fouls, the committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks. The change would allow the receiving team all of the previous options as well as accepting the distance penalty at the end of the down.

You can certainly have that opinion but I’m going to officiate with the text written in the actual rules sections of the rule book, not the comments.

[bama_stripes]

You can certainly have that opinion but I’m going to officiate with the text written in the actual rules sections of the rule book, not the comments.

I think it’s important to understand the rationale for rules changes, and Ralph has done a great job of explaining those to us within the limitations imposed on him as a committee member.

I would still recommend that the committee allow a few members of this forum to vet the language of the rules changes, along with any related case plays, before publication.

[Ump33]

You can certainly have that opinion but I’m going to officiate with the text written in the actual rules sections of the rule book, not the comments.

There is a reason that 10-5-1d only references 10-4-2 Exception and does not reference 10-4-4.  But the season is over and the point is moot, hopefully the NFHS will make their intent clear for next year.  Wishing you and all my "officiating family" a Merry Christmas.