Curiously written rule (Replay)

[ElvisLives]

Rule 12

Reviewable Fouls
12-3-8-f. A player touching or recovering a kick or loose ball who has been out of bounds and returned inbounds during the kick.

OK. The only possible foul there is for an Illegal Return by a Team A player (not just any player) who went OB voluntarily and returned inbounds, or was blocked OB but didn’t return inbounds immediately. That has nothing to do with touching or recovery of the ball (during or after the kick). Such a player is not prohibited from touching/recovering the ball, blocking an opponent, or tackling/obstructing a ball carrier, any MORE (or less) than any of his teammates.
The replay rule mentions, “…kick or loose ball…” Uh, a kick IS a loose ball. Any other loose ball could only happen after the ball had been in player possession, ending the kick play. A Team A player recovering a kick would cause the ball to become dead. Recovering a fumble or loose backward pass (after the kick play ended) does not change live-ball status. So, what is “…or loose ball…” all about?

[Legacy Zebra]

The  rule is written convolutedly because they combined what should have been two sentences into one.


The touching isn’t actually the foul being reviewed, the illegal return is. A player going out of bounds during a kick and then returning is not reviewable on its own. It is only reviewable if that player subsequently touches or recovers the ball. That touching or recovery could be the kick itself or any subsequent loose ball, such as the returner fumbling the ball. Basically, an illegal return is not “important” enough to be reviewable normally, but if that illegal return ends up affecting the ball it creates enough of an advantage to warrant a review.

They should have just written “f. A Team A player illegally returning inbounds after being out of bounds during a kick. (Only reviewable if the player touches or recovers the kick or subsequent loose ball).”

[ElvisLives]

The  rule is written convolutedly because they combined what should have been two sentences into one.


The touching isn’t actually the foul being reviewed, the illegal return is. A player going out of bounds during a kick and then returning is not reviewable on its own. It is only reviewable if that player subsequently touches or recovers the ball. That touching or recovery could be the kick itself or any subsequent loose ball, such as the returner fumbling the ball. Basically, an illegal return is not “important” enough to be reviewable normally, but if that illegal return ends up affecting the ball it creates enough of an advantage to warrant a review.

They should have just written “f. A Team A player illegally returning inbounds after being out of bounds during a kick. (Only reviewable if the player touches or recovers the kick or subsequent loose ball).”

I don’t like that answer, but I believe it. It makes sense, in its own non-sensical way. But, yeah, they need to ask us to vet the rule language! 😉

[dammitbobby]

So I've looked and looked and I can't find an answer to this question.

'A player touching or recovering a kick or loose ball who has been out of bounds and returned inbounds during the kick.'

Let's say that during this play, the kick ends, the returner fumbles, and the player who went OOB (foul) recovers the  ball. This specific provision only addresses situations where the play status is a kick (not going to list loose ball here because as Elvis pointed out, they're the same thing).

Does that prohibition end as the play status transitions to a running play? Or am I missing a sentence buried somewhere that extends this out to all touching and recovery during the down?

[ElvisLives]

So I've looked and looked and I can't find an answer to this question.

'A player touching or recovering a kick or loose ball who has been out of bounds and returned inbounds during the kick.'

Let's say that during this play, the kick ends, the returner fumbles, and the player who went OOB (foul) recovers the  ball. This specific provision only addresses situations where the play status is a kick (not going to list loose ball here because as Elvis pointed out, they're the same thing).

Does that prohibition end as the play status transitions to a running play? Or am I missing a sentence buried somewhere that extends this out to all touching and recovery during the down?

The rule under discussion is a Replay rule. The actual rules are 6-1-11 (Free Kicks) and 6-3-12 (Scrimmage Kicks). Those rules apply to the entire down. So, when a Team A player is out of bounds on his own, if he returns inbounds any time during the remainder of the down, he has committed a foul for an ‘illegal return.’ The replay rule simply gives the RO the authority to include the ‘illegal return’ element in his review, if he is, first, looking to determine if a player touched a loose ball after he returns inbounds.
Note 4 things:
1) His touching of the ball is no different than any other Team A player touching the ball. If it has not yet reached/crossed Team B’s restraining line, or been touched by Team B, on a free kick, the touching is illegal. If it HAS reached/crossed Team B’s restraining line/been touched by Team B, on a free kick, the touching is legal. But that is true for ANY player of Team A, whether they have been OB or not.
2) A free kick play begins when the ball is kicked, and ends when the ball comes into player possession or otherwise becomes dead.
3) A scrimmage kick play begins when the ball is snapped, and ends when the ball comes into player possession or otherwise becomes dead.
4) The illegal return rule applies for the entire down, not just during the kick play portion of the down. That’s why we need understand the difference between a ‘play’ and a ‘down.’ A down may contain several plays. (When the CFO sends out “Play Situations,” they are actually sending out “Down Situations.” But, I’ll never convince them to change their informal terminology.)

The fact that touching of a loose ball, or blocking of an opponent, or tackling of a BC, by a player that has returned illegally is no different than any other player doing those things would make them unremarkable, IMHO, and should not be required ‘triggers’ for the RO to consider the possibility of an illegal return.

But I’m not in charge.

[Legacy Zebra]

The answer is in the sentence you ignored. A kick is one type of loose ball, but not the only type. If they wanted it limited to just the kick it would only say kick. Remember that a player who goes out of bounds during a kick play may not return during the entire down, no matter what happens after the kick.

4/10 @ A-20. Team A punts. During the kick, A88 goes out of bounds on his own. While A88 is out of bounds, B1 catches the punt at the 50, is hit at the A-45 and fumbles. While the ball is loose, A88 returns inbounds and recovers the fumble while grounded at the A-40. The on-field officials do not flag A88 and award Team A possession.

Because A88 touched a loose ball after illegally returning inbounds, that foul is reviewable. If A88 had not touched the ball it would not be reviewable.

[dammitbobby]

Thanks gents, those responses answer my questions perfectly.