Victory Formation Protocol

[Ralph Damren]

At our state officials' meeting last Fall ,we voted overwhelmingly to establish a uniform protocol when the coach of the team in the lead announced his QB was going to "take a knee". I've just finished a series of meetings with the coaches of our state and received their strong support of this method and the establishment of Constancy. I would appreciate any suggestions/comments/concerns that any of you may have.

               VICTORY FORMATION PROTOCOL

 A. Coach of leading team informs wing official on his side that his QB will be taking a knee.
   1. Wing official will verbalize and hand signal by tapping knee to official on opposite sideline.
   2. If the lead is less than nine or trailing team has timeouts left, that coach can inform official
      that his team will continue to play.
     a. That official will use signal #10 to communicate to R,U and opposite sideline that B still
         will be playing.
     b. leading coach,R & U will remind offense that defense is still coming and to be ready.
     c. If trailing coach agrees to harness defense, official will signal "thumb's up"

 B. When the lead is nine or greater and defense has no time outs remaining.
   1. The trailing coach will be informed that the QB will be taking a knee and he needs to
       harness his defense.
   2. R & U will inform the defense to stay out of contact and QB to go down as soon as snap
      is received.

 C. Potential fouls.
   1. Player contacting a defenseless player (9-4-3g) would be a personal foul.
   2. QB failing to quickly take a knee (9-10-1) would be an unfair act -unsportsmanlike
      conduct with previous spot enforcement.

NOTE: In the interest of improving safety and promoting good sportsmanship, it is felt that
         providing consistent game-ending procedures was needed.

[HLinNC]

Oh no! <headsmack thingy>

 
 

 

[Atlanta Blue]

Since you asked -

               VICTORY FORMATION PROTOCOL

 A. Coach of leading team informs wing official on his side that his QB will be taking a knee.
   1. Wing official will verbalize and hand signal by tapping knee to official on opposite sideline.
   2. If the lead is less than nine or trailing team has timeouts left, that coach can inform official
      that his team will continue to play.
     a. That official will use signal #10 to communicate to R,U and opposite sideline that B still
         will be playing.
     b. leading coach,R & U will remind offense that defense is still coming and to be ready.
     c. If trailing coach agrees to harness defense, official will signal "thumb's up"

Forget all of this, call the game as it's played.  If you really feel compelled to say something (and you shouldn't), tell the offensive line to keep playing, and the defense to "be smart".

B. When the lead is nine or greater and defense has no time outs remaining.
   1. The trailing coach will be informed that the QB will be taking a knee and he needs to
       harness his defense.
   2. R & U will inform the defense to stay out of contact and QB to go down as soon as snap
      is received.

Just end the d#mn game.  You've already ended it anyway, why bother with all of this?  If you think you're doing this for "safety reasons", they why even bother doing it?

C. Potential fouls.
   1. Player contacting a defenseless player (9-4-3g) would be a personal foul.

The QB is defenseless.  The linemen aren't.

   2. QB failing to quickly take a knee (9-10-1) would be an unfair act -unsportsmanlike
      conduct with previous spot enforcement.

Now you're just making up rules.  There is no rule that requires the QB to take a knee immediately, and to require him to do so is making a new rule.

And beside, if he's taking a knee anyway, why would he care if he's penalized, you aren't resetting the clock.

NOTE: In the interest of improving safety and promoting good sportsmanship, it is felt that
         providing consistent game-ending procedures was needed.

Not if everyone does their job!

[bbeagle]

I wish a knee would just be illegal. It's the dumbest part of the game we have to officiate.

Intentionally throwing the ball to conserve time or save yardage is illegal.... then there's a special rule made up to allow the QB to spike the ball to conserve time.

Why not have a rule that an intentional knee is also illegal and make the team TRY to gain yardage. Any attempt to NOT gain yardage results in the clock stopping.

There are CFL and Arena Football rules against taking a knee. Why not in other levels of football?

[VALJ]

Here we go...

 

[Curious]

Since you asked -
Forget all of this, call the game as it's played.  If you really feel compelled to say something (and you shouldn't), tell the offensive line to keep playing, and the defense to "be smart".


Just end the d#mn game.  You've already ended it anyway, why bother with all of this?  If you think you're doing this for "safety reasons", they why even bother doing it?

The QB is defenseless.  The linemen aren't.

Now you're just making up rules.  There is no rule that requires the QB to take a knee immediately, and to require him to do so is making a new rule.

And beside, if he's taking a knee anyway, why would he care if he's penalized, you aren't resetting the clock.

Not if everyone does their job!

C'mon AB, loosen up!  Tell us how you REALLY feel!!!

[Atlanta Blue]

C'mon AB, loosen up!  Tell us how you REALLY feel!!!

I held back because of my respect for Ralph.

But he did ask!

[FLAHL]

Based in large part on what I've read on this board, here's how I handle it.

If the QB tells me he's taking a knee, I tell him to tell his line to protect him because the other team is still playing.  That's it.

Speaking of taking a knee, what ever happened to Coach "toes-on-the-line" Schiano?

[BIG UMP]

I don't agree with this either.  If you must make state decisions

A.  If the point spread is over 9 and B is out of TOs, call the game.
B.  Point spread is less than 9 and/or B has timeouts, play football.  A muffed snap is an opportunity for B to get back in the game.  Nothing needs to be said, B is playing smart shooting the gaps.

[edtude]

Based in large part on what I've read on this board, here's how I handle it.

If the QB tells me he's taking a knee, I tell him to tell his line to protect him because the other team is still playing.  That's it.

Speaking of taking a knee, what ever happened to Coach "toes-on-the-line" Schiano?

That is in essence what we inform our offense as well. You are obligated to protect yourselves gentlemen. We also inform the defense that if that QB does indeed have his knee on the ground he will be afforded every protection that he is due. If he does not we are playing football.

Schiano is an analyst for ESPN at the moment, heard him on Mike and Mike last week.

[FLAHL]

I think Ralph posted this on purpose so that we'd all stop talking about 5th down and do-overs.  Nice work Ralph! 

[younggun]

Step 1: You find out or see team A is in the V formation.

Step 2: Umpire say something like, "Be smart, don't do anything stupid."

Step 3: Officiate accordingly.

Step 4: Shower

Step 5: Beer and Wings

[HLinNC]

Here we go...

 deadhorse

:

I was first VA!

And down the rabbit hole we go...............

[Rulesman]

Here we go...

 

What he said.

[Rulesman]

And down the rabbit hole we go...............

Him, too.

[Ralph Damren]

 

Thanks, guys, for your opinions. This was prompted by several ugly endings we've had over the past few years, as we had no uniform procedure and every crew handled this situation differently. The framework of our mechanic was taken from the Ohio Gold Book, a highly respected football state. I'll keep you updated on the success/failure/or whatever of our mission. On a probably more unifying note, we adopted a 35 point "adjusted timing rule" (it was felt that sounded nicer than "mercy rule", "skunk rule" and the like ).That seemed to be well received by everyone.

 

I appreciate your candor and hope this doesn't come back to haunt me...

[Atlanta Blue]

taken from the Ohio Gold Book, a highly respected football state.

From this morning's newspaper:

"There were 30 former Georgia high school players picked in the 2015 NFL Draft. That’s the most ever for Georgia, and the second-most of any state nationally behind California."

And we don't have any silly rules like this, or the Oregon experimental rule! 

[FLAHL]

The ATR (adjusted timing rule) in FL is also 35 points.  It begins any time one team leads by 35 or more at any point in the 2nd half.  It doesn't revert back to regular timing if the trailing team narrows the margin to less than 35.  The clock stops for time outs, injuries, USC penalties, and between the 3rd and 4th quarter.

[Atlanta Blue]

The ATR (adjusted timing rule) in FL is also 35 points.  It begins any time one team leads by 35 or more at any point in the 2nd half.  It doesn't revert back to regular timing if the trailing team narrows the margin to less than 35.  The clock stops for time outs, injuries, USC penalties, and between the 3rd and 4th quarter.

Ours is 30 points.  Option of the losing coach in the 3rd qtr, mandatory in the 4th quarter.  Once started, we do not revert back either.  Clock stops for SPIT:

Scores
Penalties
Injuries
Time outs

[TampaSteve]

I always find it interesting when the game is effectively over with 1:30 left, & A has a wide margin of points and when A indicates they want to take a knee that B somehow plays their hardest. - even though they did not for the past 46:30.

[TampaSteve]

The ATR (adjusted timing rule) in FL is also 35 points.  It begins any time one team leads by 35 or more at any point in the 2nd half.  It doesn't revert back to regular timing if the trailing team narrows the margin to less than 35.  The clock stops for time outs, injuries, USC penalties, and between the 3rd and 4th quarter.

stops for USC penalties?
Unless it recently changed, it was always 'spit' (like Atl), wasn't it?

[FLAHL]

Ours is 30 points.  Option of the losing coach in the 3rd qtr, mandatory in the 4th quarter.  Once started, we do not revert back either.  Clock stops for SPIT:

Scores
Penalties
Injuries
Time outs

I'd be in favor of reducing to 30 or even 25 (3 TDs and 2 Pt Conversions is still not enough).  I'm sure there are examples of fantastic comebacks, but most of the time kids hang their heads when they get down by more than 2 scores, and quite often the reason they're down by 3 or more scores is that they're outmanned.  Our districts are assigned by enrollment, so big schools tend to play other big schools, but the difference in talent is often significant.  I'd be interested to know the biggest deficit you've seen overcome.  This is my 12th year, and I can't remember anyone coming back from 3 TDs down.

[FLAHL]

stops for USC penalties?
Unless it recently changed, it was always 'spit' (like Atl), wasn't it?

I just read that in the FHSAA "football only" Guidebook.  USC is intended to give us the opportunity to make both coaches aware that the player who committed the USC is on thin ice.  I think it's also a good idea to let things cool down after a USC in a blowout, but we could easily do that with the clock running.  Also, we don't stop the clock after scores anymore.  See page 38 here: http://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/files/attachments/2010/09/16/node-247/2015-16_fhsaa_officials_guidebook_-_football_specific_0.pdf

[TampaSteve]

I just read that in the FHSAA "football only" Guidebook.  USC is intended to give us the opportunity to make both coaches aware that the player who committed the USC is on thin ice.  I think it's also a good idea to let things cool down after a USC in a blowout, but we could easily do that with the clock running.  Also, we don't stop the clock after scores anymore.

no stoppages after scores?? - (the crowd cheers).

[TampaSteve]

Speaking of taking a knee, what ever happened to Coach "toes-on-the-line" Schiano?

last I saw, he's out of the game.