Legal hit or foul?

[RickKY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcDLG34xCLY

Watch the video and discuss the contact.  I have no idea if a foul was actually called or not, there is no evidence on the video, so I assume not.

[losthog]

Leading with the head, to the head.  Personal foul unsportsmanlike.    Although the football guy in me says good hit, way to separate the ball.  It would be very hard to call this in real time.

[Atlanta Blue]

Slow it down, he does NOT lead with his head.  He certainly lowers his head, but then puts his shoulder into the receiver, even lifts his forearm to add an extra shot.

It might be a hit on a defenseless receiver call, but not Illegal Helmet Contact.

[losthog]

Slow it down, he does NOT lead with his head.  He certainly lowers his head, but then puts his shoulder into the receiver, even lifts his forearm to add an extra shot.

It might be a hit on a defenseless receiver call, but not Illegal Helmet Contact.

We do not have that luxury on the field.  It would be a hard call and one I could support either way.  The main problem I have with the hit is where the contact is initiated.  Up in the shoulder, neck, head area.  If the defender goes low on the numbers, or at the belt.  Nice play.  With blows to the head being a major point of player safety for this season and all seasons to follow, the only way to remove these types of plays is to call them when we see them.   I personally would call unsportsmanlike illegal contact.

[Curious]

Slow it down, he does NOT lead with his head.  He certainly lowers his head, but then puts his shoulder into the receiver, even lifts his forearm to add an extra shot.

It might be a hit on a defenseless receiver call, but not Illegal Helmet Contact.

As much as I an loathe to argue with AB, I would argue that IHC could be called here even though (as AB points out) the defender initially lowers his head, it looks to me like he drove his helmet up through the receiver's neck and chin.

Respectfully submitted, Douglas E. Niedermeier, Sargent at Arms

[mbyron]

Legal hit.

[Bob M.]

Leading with the head, to the head.  Personal foul unsportsmanlike.    Although the football guy in me says good hit, way to separate the ball.  It would be very hard to call this in real time.

REPLY: If you believe this is a personal foul, that's fine. But it is NOT unsportsmanlike. Personal fouls are contact fouls; unsportsmanlike fouls are NON-CONTACT in nature.

[HLinNC]

Looks legal to me.  Head was to the side and he hits sternum area with shoulder.  Hard to slow YouTube videos down to get a clear look but where I stopped it that's what it looks like to me.

[RickKY]

I believe this is unnecessary roughness against a defenseless player.  The defender could have used his hands to defend against the pass, or wrap and tackle lower on the body.

[bama_stripes]

IHC, and (at the HS level) I'd consider ejection.

Of course, from a different angle, my answer might be different!

[James]

Bob made the point I wanted to.
With one exception (I believe) - a player contacting an official is an UNS foul isn't it? 

[Bob M.]

Bob made the point I wanted to.
With one exception (I believe) - a player contacting an official is an UNS foul isn't it? 

REPLY: Correct. There is another exception, James. Any guesses? [Hint: Think in the other direction.]

[mbyron]

REPLY: Correct. There is another exception, James. Any guesses? [Hint: Think in the other direction.]

An official contacting a player? 

[James]

Come on Bob - tell us... No one has jumped in with an answer, and as I far as I remember contact with an official is the only one.

[RickKY]

How about this Bob?  Repeatedly fouling to halve the distance to the goal.  These fouls may or may not involve contact. 9-9-2

[mbyron]

How about this Bob?  Repeatedly fouling to halve the distance to the goal.  These fouls may or may not involve contact. 9-9-2

We're looking for the exceptions to the general statement that UNS fouls do not involve contact.

Contacting officials is one; what about coach contact?

[bama_stripes]

We're looking for the exceptions to the general statement that UNS fouls do not involve contact.

Contacting officials is one; what about coach contact?

I believe "coach contact" ( at least in the restricted area) is actually a PF with special enforcement.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I was actually asking about the 'other direction': When is it that a non-contact foul is judged to be a personal foul?

[mbyron]

REPLY: I was actually asking about the 'other direction': When is it that a non-contact foul is judged to be a personal foul?

Hurdling. 9-4-3d

[mbyron]

Bob made the point I wanted to.
With one exception (I believe) - a player contacting an official is an UNS foul isn't it? 

Just looked this up, and it is NOT unsportsmanlike, a player or nonplayer intentionally contacting an official is a personal foul. 9-4-2

The signal to be used is S38, which is the personal foul signal, not S27, which is USC.

[dch]

swing & miss or kick and miss are personal fouls (and disqualification). 
No contact  --  but these are not "unsportsmanlike fouls".