Play Situations

[BlindZebra]

Since the QB is still in the pocket and the block in the back is from a lineman, it's legal. There's an AR somewhere that says it more eloquently, but basically a lineman in pass protection can block in the back even if the ball had technically left the blocking zone as long as the QB is still in the pocket. The offside is declined by rule since Team A scored a touchdown. B95 is disqualified for te slug. Team A can choose to have the penalty for that foul enforced on the try or kickoff. Then Team B can choose to enforce the UNS at either the try or kickoff as well. If they both choose the try, it will be from the B-16.5, not offsetting.

I like the answer...any objections?  The AR you are looking for is 9-3-3-IX.  I didn't know that was in the book until this past weekend when someone showed me.  I thought he was crazy for saying that it was a legal block when the block was outside the blocking zone.  Then he showed me that.  Crow tastes great at 7:00 in the morning.

A 2/10 @A45. A2 drops back and throws a deep pass that is intercepted by B21 at the B15. B21 returns the ball to the A48 where he is tackled. During the pass, A76 holds B55 at the LOS. After the interception, B9 targets A84 with a high hit at the B20.  During the interception return B54 blocks A65 in the back at the B40. Immediately after B21 is tackled, B11 blindside blocks QB A2 in the head with initial force of his forearm to the head of A2. Replay shows that B9’s hit on A84 is with the shoulder and initial contact is to the chest. Replay confirms the targeting call on B11.  Ruling?

[dvasques]

B can decline the offset and take the ball after enforcement of TGT by B-11.
Since the hit by B9 was deemed legal by replay (from what I understood), that hit is irrelevant to the play

B11 is out of the game
B 1/10 @ A37


Now... if B9 had also targeted we'd have

B 1/10 @ B-10
B11 and B9 out of the game

right?

[Legacy Zebra]

Now... if B9 had also targeted we'd have

B 1/10 @ B-10
B11 and B9 out of the game

right?

Almost. One targeting was a live ball foul and one was a dead ball foul. So both would be enforced. Both players would be gone and it would be first down from the B-5.

Follow up: Let's say the two targeting reviews are flipped. B9's (during the return) is confirmed, but B11's ( after the play) is overturned because the contact was deemed to be to the shoulder. What do you have?

[dvasques]

right... missed that one

and I'd have the same B 1/10 @ B-5

B9 out for TGT
B11 foul should be late hit with TGT so when TGT was taken away, we'd still have 15 for UNR

[BlindZebra]

A 2/10 @A45. A2 drops back and throws a deep pass that is intercepted by B21 at the B15. B21 returns the ball to the A48 where he is tackled. During the pass, A76 holds B55 at the LOS. After the interception, B9 targets A84 with a high hit at the B20.  During the interception return B54 blocks A65 in the back at the B40. Immediately after B21 is tackled, B11 blindside blocks QB A2 in the head with initial force of his forearm to the head of A2. Replay shows that B9’s hit on A84 is with the shoulder and initial contact is to the chest. Replay confirms the targeting call on B11.  Ruling?

B11 is out of the game
B 1/10 @ A37

Wait let's go back...I see a foul by A before the interception and a foul by B after the interception.  The foul by B9 is nothing since Reply reversed the call.  B has clean hands so they can decline offsetting fouls and be penalized for the IBB at the B40 since the run ended beyond the foul.  That makes it B 1/10 @ B30.  But you have a dead ball foul by B11 which will be the full 15 making it B 1/10 @ B15.  Where am I going wrong?

[goodgrr]

Wait let's go back...I see a foul by A before the interception and a foul by B after the interception.  The foul by B9 is nothing since Reply reversed the call.  B has clean hands so they can decline offsetting fouls and be penalized for the IBB at the B40 since the run ended beyond the foul.  That makes it B 1/10 @ B30.  But you have a dead ball foul by B11 which will be the full 15 making it B 1/10 @ B15.  Where am I going wrong?

Yes that's also the way I saw it too so would be interested on why not.

[dvasques]

I simply didn't read the block in the back part of the play...

[dvasques]

A 2/10 @A45. A2 drops back and throws a deep pass that is intercepted by B21 at the B15. B21 returns the ball to the A48 where he is tackled. During the pass, A76 holds B55 at the LOS. After the interception, B9 targets A84 with a high hit at the B20.  During the interception return B54 blocks A65 in the back at the B40. Immediately after B21 is tackled, B11 blindside blocks QB A2 in the head with initial force of his forearm to the head of A2. Replay shows that B9’s hit on A84 is with the shoulder and initial contact is to the chest. Replay confirms the targeting call on B11.  Ruling?

So, on the original play, we have
A76 OH prior to change of possession, which B can decline to keep the ball
B9 TGT @ B-20 that is taken away by replay
B54 IBB @ B-40
B11 UNR/TGT @ A-48, which is where the last run ends

So B 1/10 @ B-15 - B11 out of the game

If both targeting fouls are confirmed, then you throw away the IBB and enforce both TGT to have
B 1/10 @ B-5 - B9 and B11 out of the game

And if the targeting by B9 is confirmed and by B11 is take away by replay, you still throw away the IBB and have
B 1/10 @ B-5 - B9 out of the game, B11 stays but is still penalized by UNR

did I get everything this time?

[BlindZebra]

So, on the original play, we have
A76 OH prior to change of possession, which B can decline to keep the ball
B9 TGT @ B-20 that is taken away by replay
B54 IBB @ B-40
B11 UNR/TGT @ A-48, which is where the last run ends

So B 1/10 @ B-15 - B11 out of the game

If both targeting fouls are confirmed, then you throw away the IBB and enforce both TGT to have
B 1/10 @ B-5 - B9 and B11 out of the game

And if the targeting by B9 is confirmed and by B11 is take away by replay, you still throw away the IBB and have
B 1/10 @ B-5 - B9 out of the game, B11 stays but is still penalized by UNR

did I get everything this time?

Yeah I agree.  As long as you report your foul on B11 as UNR/TGT and replay takes off the TGT we are going to the B5 since we still have the UNR component of the foul.  But if you simply report targeting by B11 and replay reverses it, we are only going to the B10.

A 3/9 @ A-41. In the 2nd quarter with :45 seconds on the clock and running. Both teams have one (1) timeout remaining. QB A9 in shotgun formation takes the snap and attempts to pass the ball to RB A25 who is blocked to the ground by LB B55 at the A-45. A9 gets pressured by B56 and roles out to the HL side of the field.  Unable to find an open receiver A9 runs to the A-42(entire body beyond LOS), and just before stepping out of bounds he tosses the ball forward underhanded downfield to the A-44 where no team A player is in the area.  While A9 was running B21 held A88 at the A-49 in the middle of the field. After the play, B56 hits A9 late after he stepped out of bounds. The clock shows :33 seconds when A9 steps out of bounds. Ruling?  Include clock status in your answer.

[Legacy Zebra]

The illegal forward pass and the defensive holding offset. There is no runoff since the fouls offset. The dead ball foul will be enforced from the succeeding spot (which happens to also be the previous spot on this play). It will be 1st and 10 at the B-44. The incomplete forward pass is what caused the clock to stop, so the clock will start on the snap. Play clock at 25 since we administered a penalty.

[Bwest]

The illegal forward pass and the defensive holding offset. There is no runoff since the fouls offset. The dead ball foul will be enforced from the succeeding spot (which happens to also be the previous spot on this play). It will be 1st and 10 at the B-44. The incomplete forward pass is what caused the clock to stop, so the clock will start on the snap. Play clock at 25 since we administered a penalty.

All of this with the following aside:

If you rule that the pass was thrown to conserve time, then the clock starts on the RFP.

[blindtxzebra]

2/10 @ A20. A22 makes a long run to the B30. During the play, A55 helmet comes off as a result of a foul by B75. A55 then picks his helmet up, puts it back on and continues to participate in the play.

[dvasques]

we have an offset and repeat 2/10 @ A-20 there, right?

[Legacy Zebra]

Yup. When A55 put his helmet back on and continued to play, that became a personal foul that will offset whatever foul forced his helmet off in the first place. And because of the fouls, there is no chance for a 10 second runoff for the helmet. And A55 can stay in the game since the foul caused it to come off. Clock on the RFP, play clock at 25.

[Legacy Zebra]

How about this one I had in a high school game this year.

Kickoff from A-40. The kick is recovered by B13 at his own 20 yard line. At the B-25 he hands off to a teammate crossing in front of him. During the return the Head Linesman drops a flag for Team A's second sideline interference foul of the game. A10 was offside at the kick.

[Kalle]

Kickoff from A-40. The kick is recovered by B13 at his own 20 yard line. At the B-25 he hands off to a teammate crossing in front of him. During the return the Head Linesman drops a flag for Team A's second sideline interference foul of the game. A10 was offside at the kick.

Interestingly sideline interference is a pure live-ball foul, so team B has two options: either accept offsetting fouls and repeat the KO from A-40, or decline both team A live-ball fouls and have the illegal forward handing foul enforced, B 1/10 @ B-20.

[Bwest]

Interestingly sideline interference is a pure live-ball foul, so team B has two options: either accept offsetting fouls and repeat the KO from A-40, or decline both team A live-ball fouls and have the illegal forward handing foul enforced, B 1/10 @ B-20.

Sideline interference is a live ball treated as dead ball foul. It will not offset these live ball fouls. So add the end of either of your options we are marking off a 5-yard DOG (sideline interference) penalty against A.

[Kalle]

Sideline interference is a live ball treated as dead ball foul. It will not offset these live ball fouls. So add the end of either of your options we are marking off a 5-yard DOG (sideline interference) penalty against A.

Correct. For some weird reason I completely missed the "Administer as a dead-ball foul" clause in 9-2-5 (and was surprised, as I thought it was a DB-enforcement).

[robin083]

I am not sure if anyone has seen something like this. 

4th/12 at A7.  The snap hits blocking back A34's chest who is not aligned in the end zone and rolls along the ground.  B67 bats the ball backward from A's 2 yard line.  After being batted, the ball hits B54 on A's 4 and rolls into A's end zone.  A3 picks up the ball and punts.  The punt is blocked and the ball goes out of A's end zone without entering the field of play. 

[Bwest]

I am not sure if anyone has seen something like this. 

4th/12 at A7.  The snap hits blocking back A34's chest who is not aligned in the end zone and rolls along the ground.  B67 bats the ball backward from A's 2 yard line.  After being batted, the ball hits B54 on A's 4 and rolls into A's end zone.  A3 picks up the ball and punts.  The punt is blocked and the ball goes out of A's end zone without entering the field of play.

Impetus is changed when B bats the ball. B is responsible for the ball being in the end zone. The ball never leaves the end zone, so the result of the play is a touchback.

[robin083]

How do I convince my crew of that?

[Legacy Zebra]

Show them 8-7-2-b. It's pretty specific. Batting a loose ball after it touches the ground is new impetus.

[robin083]

I have, the response I get is "but A kicked the ball".  Also, AR 8-5-1 II:

A scrimmage kick fails to cross the neutral zone, or crosses the neutral

zone and is first touched by Team B, or is untouched and then rebounds

into the end zone, where it is declared dead in Team A’s possession.

RULING: Safety (Rule 8-7-2-a).

[dvasques]

But the ball was out of the end zone then B put impetus to it and the ball in the end zone

A punted but the ball never left the end zone. A was not responsible for putting the ball in the end zone.

In the AR, all three situations, the ball only entered the end zone because of impetus by A. So you have safety. In this case, the ball entered the end zone because os impetus by B. For it not to be a touchback, the ball would have to leave the end zone, then enter the end zone again with impetus by B

[robin083]

Thank you all for your help.  I will let you know how the convincing goes.