Scrimmage Kick Formation?

[NVFOA_Ump]

We have had teams in our area where they have 1 kicker for both punts and FGs/EPs.  So on a 4th down play he is 10-12 yards behind the LOS in both configurations (with a "holder" in place or without a holder in place). Doesn't that fact that he could receive a direct snap mean he meets 2-14-2b whether or not the "holder" has a knee down?  Or asked differently is the scrimmage kick numbering exception in effect on either/both of these?

[HLinNC]

The rule says "either".

[CalhounLJ]

We have had teams in our area where they have 1 kicker for both punts and FGs/EPs.  So on a 4th down play he is 10-12 yards behind the LOS in both configurations (with a "holder" in place or without a holder in place). Doesn't that fact that he could receive a direct snap mean he meets 2-14-2b whether or not the "holder" has a knee down?  Or asked differently is the scrimmage kick numbering exception in effect on either/both of these?

On fourth down, yes.
On 3rd down, the only numbering exception that can legally be used is the snapper in a field goal formation. A must have 4 legal linemen, and the snapper must be the player using the numbering exception. There has to be a holder in place with a knee on the ground, with another player behind him in a position to be the kicker.

[Mad Mike]

Additional question here:

If the holder does not go down on a knee, but places the ball down and it is kicked for a field goal or a try, there are no snapper protections as this is not a scrimmage kick formation. There also are no numbering exceptions allowed in this situation.

What advantage(s), if any, are there for a holder to not be on a knee when the ball is kicked?

Second question, if the holder (who is not on a knee) gets contacted, does he get the same protections as a holder who is on his knee when the ball is kicked? Or does he suffer the same fate as the snapper and can be contacted (within reason)?

[Ralph Damren]

Additional question here:

If the holder does not go down on a knee, but places the ball down and it is kicked for a field goal or a try, there are no snapper protections as this is not a scrimmage kick formation. There also are no numbering exceptions allowed in this situation.

What advantage(s), if any, are there for a holder to not be on a knee when the ball is kicked?

Second question, if the holder (who is not on a knee) gets contacted, does he get the same protections as a holder who is on his knee when the ball is kicked? Or does he suffer the same fate as the snapper and can be contacted (within reason)?

A STORY THAT I'VE HEARD SEVERAL TIMES......

COACH : "Our holder will be in a 'catcher's crouch' position when taking a snap and will....."

RESPONSE: " Let me stop you right there, coach, than that wouldn't be a scrimmage kick formation. You couldn't use the numbering exception and your snapper, holder and  kicker would lose their roughing protection. "

COACH: " 'Spect I best not use 'er then  ."

RESPONSE: v"Ayuh, 'spect not  ,"

[CalhounLJ]

Additional question here:

If the holder does not go down on a knee, but places the ball down and it is kicked for a field goal or a try, there are no snapper protections as this is not a scrimmage kick formation. There also are no numbering exceptions allowed in this situation.

What advantage(s), if any, are there for a holder to not be on a knee when the ball is kicked?

Second question, if the holder (who is not on a knee) gets contacted, does he get the same protections as a holder who is on his knee when the ball is kicked? Or does he suffer the same fate as the snapper and can be contacted (within reason)?

I've encountered coaches who mistakenly assume that to run a fake field goal, the holder must begin in the crouch position. It is true that to be able to pass or hand the ball off, the holder must lift the knee off the ground, but that doesn't preclude him or her from receiving the snap with the knee on the ground. They can receive the snap on a knee, then rise (lift the knee off the ground) and run, pass, or hand it off.