Other than Buying 1st round

[Patrick E.]

On a free kick, K encroaches, BJ throws flag but does not blow whistle.  During the return there is a block in the back by R.

How are you going to administer this one?  Are you giving R the option to:

a.  take the K live ball foul resulting in a double foul and have K re-kick
b.  keep the ball by declining K's foul and enforcing the BIB under the ABO
c.  other

Similar, but this time it is a scrimmage play - B encroaches, HL throws flag but let's the play go.  B intercepts the ball.

Thanks in advance.

[prab]

I think that in your first situation you ignore the block in the back on the "return" which should not have happened.  5 yard penalty and K re-kicks from K-35.

In your second situation, similar results.  Ignore the interception.  Penalize B 5 yards and the number of the down remains the same.

I don't think that their is any provision in the rules to allow a mistake by an official to convert a dead ball foul into a live ball foul.

[CalhounLJ]

I agree. Either administer like prab suggested or ignore the flags, which I don't think is a valid option. I don't think you can justify administering as a live ball or simultaneous with snap.

[BoBo]

Under NFHS rules

Offsides on K. penalize 5 yards and rekick.

On the second play you have encroachment on the defense, 5 yards penalized against B

In both cases both plays should have never been allowed to start as these are dead ball plays.

May have to swallow your pride and admit you made an error.  In addition you may have to put some time back on the clock.

[bossman72]

Would you take a TD away if the offense scores when B encroaches but it is not shut down?

[Kevin Durst]

By rule the ball was never alive.  No one could have legally scored a TD.  All they would be doing is running with a dead ball.  The officials have to explain that to the coaches, and one of them will probably be upset.  The important thing is to get it right.

[Rulesman]

Under NFHS rules

Offsides on K.

No such animal. 

[Atlanta Blue]

Under NFHS rules

Offsides on K. penalize 5 yards and rekick.

Encroachment on K.  There is no such foul as "offsides", or even "offside" in FED.

Otherwise, I agree with you.  These are dead ball fouls and the plays never happened.

[Ralph Damren]

As many have said, both are DB fouls, and you need to revert the game back to that point. Things to remember:

           (1) Only fouls that could occur after the encroachment are of the personal foul/USC family. block in the back, holding and incidental face mask aren't members of that family.

          (2) If the clock started because the timer thought the zebra knew what they were doing, time should be put back on. This might help to calm the frenzied masses that what they just saw was really an optical illusion. Easy task ,if following a free kick, as crew probably jotted down time of score. More of a challenge on a scrimmage down, where crew may have to guess.

        (3) Go easy on the non-tweeters, I had much rather this occur than in inadvertent whistle. We can always rewind this, an IW never has a happy ending. In pregame, I stress let the play go if unsure to shut down (was kick muffed by R, recovered by K  or  caught and fumbled by R and advanced by recovering K) as it is much easier to correct then the dreaded IW.

[Magician]

My son had a youth game where the wing flagged the DE for encroachment but let it go. The offense ran for a 65-yard TD run. I could see the frustration in the R as the foul was reported. I forget which signal he gave but he indicated the penalty was declined and counted the TD. I talked to him after, and he knew it wasn't the correct ruling, but he felt it was the right thing to do. For me that was acceptable in a youth game but not any HS contests, especially varsity.

[prab]

This only works IF coach B does not know the rule, or also felt that it was the right thing to do.