Unfair Advantage on Illegal Kick ?????

[fudilligas]

Unlikely, but it could happen, a smart coach might be aware of this:

K ball 4/20 from midfield....muffed snap by kicker K20 who picks up the ball and runs to the R-32 where he he is going to be tackled so he kicks the ball which goes OB at the R-5

     A: if R declines the penalty it will be K's ball at the R-5 since the illegal kick is treated as a fumble

     B: if R accepts the penalty, 10 yds will be marked off from the R-32 and 4th down will be repeated...and K will have gained 8 yds to
the R-42 where they now have 4/12....

if this is near the end of the game where field position becomes critical, hasn't K gained an unfair advantage of 10 yds by committing a foul, the illegal kick

this doesn't seem right or am i missing something, and if this is correct, what is to prevent K from consistently doing this if the opportunity presents itself

[refjeff]

A legally gained 18 yards and was penalized from there.

I don't see an unfair advantage.

[HLinNC]

You are entitled to the yards ran legally.

If coaches were all that smart, why aren't they all doing it?

[fudilligas]

A legally gained 18 yards and was penalized from there.

I don't see an unfair advantage.

what i see as an unfair advantage is that by purposely committing a foul, the illegal kick, they are gaining yardage and getting the chance to retain possession for another down.....this is especially true if they do this on 4th down and don't reach the line to gain

[refjeff]

Because of the penalty, they gained no yardage with the illegal kick and lost 10 yards off the legal run.

Maybe not a perfect solution, but I'm still not understanding what they got away with.

[HLinNC]

The principle is a team is entitled to the yardage gained legally.  Until the illegal kick all is ok.  Fundamental I 6. tells us no foul causes loss of the ball which I assume is what you are proposing as a remedy.  Perhaps an Illegal Kick should carry LOD like an IFP.

[dammitbobby]

what i see as an unfair advantage is that by purposely committing a foul, the illegal kick, they are gaining yardage and getting the chance to retain possession for another down.....this is especially true if they do this on 4th down and don't reach the line to gain

That chance to retain possession is entirely dependent on the choice the offended team makes - yes, you're giving them the chance, technically (however slim), but one the receiving team would likely never accept.

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, this would take a kicker with a perfect SAT score with a coach who was an Ivy League grad to think of this on a broken play.

[ncwingman]

IMHO, this would take a kicker with a perfect SAT score with a coach who was an Ivy League grad to think of this on a broken play.

Or at least the Australian exchange student who is used to playing footie where that's not just legal, but a completely normal play.

What's more likely is that he tries to throw the ball, but that exact play is why the loss of down provision is in the illegal forward pass penalty, right?

[Ralph Damren]

Or at least the Australian exchange student who is used to playing footie where that's not just legal, but a completely normal play.

What's more likely is that he tries to throw the ball, but that exact play is why the loss of down provision is in the illegal forward pass penalty, right?

Yes, the IFP on 4th down would result in a turnover with the loss of down. Remember, guys, if the IFP was thrown from 5+ yards BEYOUND the line-to-gain, a new series would be created, 1/10. IF the passer threw the IFP BEYOND the LOS, the enforcement spot is the end of the run and WON'T result in 5 yards from the previous spot as some B coaches may want. Lastly, remember that a loss-of-down foul cannot create an untimed-down.

[fudilligas]

IMHO, this would take a kicker with a perfect SAT score with a coach who was an Ivy League grad to think of this on a broken play.

but it could happen....this was brought to my attention from a fellow refereee.....he asked me why a coach wouldn't do this all the time if he is constantly gaining yardage and another down....wouldn't this be a reason to bring the loss of down situation into the illegal kick penalty....to prevent this from happening

[dammitbobby]

But if he's constantly gaining yardage and another down, if he's past the LTG why even kick the ball? 

Statistically most 4th down plays that are not (normal) kicks don't end well for Team A.

[refjeff]

but it could happen....this was brought to my attention from a fellow refereee.....he asked me why a coach wouldn't do this all the time if he is constantly gaining yardage and another down....wouldn't this be a reason to bring the loss of down situation into the illegal kick penalty....to prevent this from happening

Seems like a solution looking for a problem.