Play Situations

[BlindZebra]

Since we are in the lull of the season where there is no spring ball anymore and we are in waiting of the fall season, figured we could post some play situations on here.  Feel free to submit situations off old tests, what you see on film that you are in question of or just the ones you create in your head while studying the rule book.  To kick things off, let's start with a short one:

A 2/10 @ A5. QB A10 is in the end zone when he throws a forward pass intended for A3.  A50 tries to catch the pass but muffs it into the air.  A3 catches the ball and runs to the A13 where he is tackled.  A50 was in the end zone when he touched the ball.  Ruling?

[hefnerjm]

Assuming that you are referring to A50 as a lineman or ineligible receiver (at least by number), I'd have an illegal touching in the EZ, enforce as a safety. 

Otherwise, unless it is on Sundays and he reports to the R as eligible, this must be one brick-dumb lineman to be turned facing his QB trying to catch a pass.

[Legacy Zebra]

Since you say the pass was intended for A3 and he later catches it, I'm going to assume that A3 was in the area of the pass and this is not intentional grounding. It is illegal touching, but it's not a safety. Illegal Touching's penalty statement specifically lists the previous spot as the enforcement spot. 2nd and 12.5 @ A2.5.

[Bwest]

Here's a somewhat convoluted play we had in a rules session where I'm still not totally convinced on:

A 4/5 @ B10. A's FG attempt is blocked at the B9. The ball is deflected to the B12, where, in order to prevent A from scooping the ball off the ground, a B player kicks the ball towards his end zone.

A) The ball is bouncing in the end zone when B24 picks it up and returns it to the B25.

B) The ball strikes the pylon.

[BlindZebra]

A 2/10 @ A5. QB A10 is in the end zone when he throws a forward pass intended for A3.  A50 tries to catch the pass but muffs it into the air.  A3 catches the ball and runs to the A13 where he is tackled.  A50 was in the end zone when he touched the ball.  Ruling?

A 2/12.5 @ A2.5.  7-3-11 penalty enforcement says to enforce at the previous spot

Here's a somewhat convoluted play we had in a rules session where I'm still not totally convinced on:

A 4/5 @ B10. A's FG attempt is blocked at the B9. The ball is deflected to the B12, where, in order to prevent A from scooping the ball off the ground, a B player kicks the ball towards his end zone.

A) The ball is bouncing in the end zone when B24 picks it up and returns it to the B25.

B) The ball strikes the pylon.

A) B 1/10 @ B6.  Continuity of downs was broken since the ball crossed the neutral zone (5-1-4-b).  Illegal kicking a loose ball is 10 yards from the basic spot which is the spot of the foul (9-4-4 & 10-2-2-d-1-c).

B) Safety.  New impetus was given to the ball when B kicked it (8-7-2-b-1) and was dead behind their goal line.  A will elect to decline the penalty and B will kick off from the B20

What is the answer?

[Bwest]

A 2/12.5 @ A2.5.  7-3-11 penalty enforcement says to enforce at the previous spot

A) B 1/10 @ B6.  Continuity of downs was broken since the ball crossed the neutral zone (5-1-4-b).  Illegal kicking a loose ball is 10 yards from the basic spot which is the spot of the foul (9-4-4 & 10-2-2-d-1-c).

B) Safety.  New impetus was given to the ball when B kicked it (8-7-2-b-1) and was dead behind their goal line.  A will elect to decline the penalty and B will kick off from the B20

What is the answer?

We decided it's a safety in both cases. In case A, the ball becomes dead as soon as it touches the endzone untouched by B beyond the neutral zone.

My point of contention was that these plays both undoubtedly satisfy the conditions in 8-5-1-a to be declared a safety. But they also satisfy the conditions in 8-4-2-b-1, which state that as an unsuccessful field goal attempt untouched by B beyond the neutral zone this ball must belong to team B to be snapped at the 20-yard line.

[BlindZebra]

DARN!  Missed that one.  It is dead when it goes into the end zone cause the status is still a kick.  If you look at 6-3-1, that is why 8-4-2-b-1 doesn't apply.  The ball was blocked one yard beyond the neutral zone which is said to have happened inside the zone.  Good learning play!

A 4/4 @ B-40. Team A is in scrimmage kick (punt) formation and the linemen are lined up in thisorder (L-R): A22, A16, A60, A61, A50, A70, A81 (A61 is the snapper and his hands are on the ball). Prior to the snap, A22 backs up into the backfield and sets uncovering interior lineman A16, and A73 moves forward between A70 and A81. The ball is snapped to the punter who completes a pass to A81 at the B-30 where he is tackled. A16 contacted a defender and drove him downfield to the B-37. RULING including clock.

[Kalle]

A 4/4 @ B-40. Team A is in scrimmage kick (punt) formation and the linemen are lined up in thisorder (L-R): A22, A16, A60, A61, A50, A70, A81 (A61 is the snapper and his hands are on the ball). Prior to the snap, A22 backs up into the backfield and sets uncovering interior lineman A16, and A73 moves forward between A70 and A81. The ball is snapped to the punter who completes a pass to A81 at the B-30 where he is tackled. A16 contacted a defender and drove him downfield to the B-37. RULING including clock.

Illegal formation, A16 became a numbering exception when A61 touched the ball and was at the end of the line at the snap. 4/9@B-45. A16 is an ineligible player by position so no foul for OPI. Result of the play is a first down for team A. The clock was stopped to administer a penalty, so it starts on the ready.

[Bwest]

DARN!  Missed that one.  It is dead when it goes into the end zone cause the status is still a kick.  If you look at 6-3-1, that is why 8-4-2-b-1 doesn't apply.  The ball was blocked one yard beyond the neutral zone which is said to have happened inside the zone.  Good learning play!

A 4/4 @ B-40. Team A is in scrimmage kick (punt) formation and the linemen are lined up in thisorder (L-R): A22, A16, A60, A61, A50, A70, A81 (A61 is the snapper and his hands are on the ball). Prior to the snap, A22 backs up into the backfield and sets uncovering interior lineman A16, and A73 moves forward between A70 and A81. The ball is snapped to the punter who completes a pass to A81 at the B-30 where he is tackled. A16 contacted a defender and drove him downfield to the B-37. RULING including clock.

Right, the ball was blocked one yard beyond the neutral zone but is said to have happened inside the zone. So, the following provision of 8-4-2-b-1 should apply:

"If the ball is untouched by Team B beyond the neutral zone (this ball was never touched beyond the neutral zone as we've decided) and is declared dead beyond the neutral zone, it belongs to team B. ....Team B will next snap the ball at its 20-yard line"

We can muddy the scenario even further. Let's try this:

A 4/5 @ B10. A's FG attempt is blocked at the B9. The ball is deflected to the B12, where, in order to prevent A from catching the blocked kick, a B player kicks the ball towards his end zone. The ball does not touch the ground.

A) The ball goes out of the back of the endzone, above the crossbar and between the uprights.

B) The ball goes out of the back of the endzone, below the crossbar and between the uprights.

[BlindZebra]

Right, the ball was blocked one yard beyond the neutral zone but is said to have happened inside the zone. So, the following provision of 8-4-2-b-1 should apply:

"If the ball is untouched by Team B beyond the neutral zone (this ball was never touched beyond the neutral zone as we've decided) and is declared dead beyond the neutral zone, it belongs to team B. ....Team B will next snap the ball at its 20-yard line"

We can muddy the scenario even further. Let's try this:

A 4/5 @ B10. A's FG attempt is blocked at the B9. The ball is deflected to the B12, where, in order to prevent A from catching the blocked kick, a B player kicks the ball towards his end zone. The ball does not touch the ground.

A) The ball goes out of the back of the endzone, above the crossbar and between the uprights.

B) The ball goes out of the back of the endzone, below the crossbar and between the uprights.

Both are safety by rule because B is responsible for the ball being out of bounds behind its goal line.  I still don't think 8-4-2-b-1 applies because if A declines the penalty the result of the play is a safety and if A accepts the penalty they can have it 1/G @ B5 since we would enforce it from the previous spot. This one made my head hurt looking through the rule book.

Illegal formation, A16 became a numbering exception when A61 touched the ball and was at the end of the line at the snap. 4/9@B-45. A16 is an ineligible player by position so no foul for OPI. Result of the play is a first down for team A. The clock was stopped to administer a penalty, so it starts on the ready.

Agree!  Numbering exceptions are very difficult sometimes.

A 4/12 @ A35.  A's punt lands at the B 20 where it touches a B player.  B21 bats the ball backwards and into the end zone.  A15 muffs the ball out of the back of the end zone.  During the kick, at the B5, B23 pushed A82 in the back to the ground while A82 was attempting to get to the loose ball.  After the ball was dead, B23 stands over A82 taunting him.  The clock reads 0:00 at the end of the first half.  Ruling?

[Bwest]

Both are safety by rule because B is responsible for the ball being out of bounds behind its goal line.  I still don't think 8-4-2-b-1 applies because if A declines the penalty the result of the play is a safety and if A accepts the penalty they can have it 1/G @ B5 since we would enforce it from the previous spot. This one made my head hurt looking through the rule book.

Agree!  Numbering exceptions are very difficult sometimes.

Situation A is also a field goal by rule. A place kick that was never grounded and only touched a player of B that goes through the uprights is a field goal. So it's a safety and a field goal by rule. Also the foul is PSK (for the situation where the field goal is NOT good), so A can't accept the penalty to get a 1st down. PSK because even though the result of a play is a safety, B would still be next to put the ball in play via free kick.

[BlindZebra]

Situation A is also a field goal by rule. A place kick that was never grounded and only touched a player of B that goes through the uprights is a field goal. So it's a safety and a field goal by rule. Also the foul is PSK (for the situation where the field goal is NOT good), so A can't accept the penalty to get a 1st down. PSK because even though the result of a play is a safety, B would still be next to put the ball in play via free kick.

Good play to learn from. I never caught PSK enforcement. I was thinking it couldn't be PSK because B fouled before the ball crossed the neutral zone, but that's not the case.

A 4/13 @ A48. A11's punt lands at the B2 and A48 bats the ball backwards to keep it from going over the goal line where it is recovered at the B3 by B12. B12 advances the ball to the B30 where he is hit and fumbles. A88 recovers the loose ball and advances it across B's goal line. During A88's run, B18 is flagged for holding at the B12. Ruling?

[Kalle]

Situation A is also a field goal by rule. A place kick that was never grounded and only touched a player of B that goes through the uprights is a field goal. So it's a safety and a field goal by rule.

In A we simply have a field goal, not a safety. As it is a successful field goal, PSK does not apply.

[Kalle]

A 4/12 @ A35.  A's punt lands at the B 20 where it touches a B player.  B21 bats the ball backwards and into the end zone.  A15 muffs the ball out of the back of the end zone.  During the kick, at the B5, B23 pushed A82 in the back to the ground while A82 was attempting to get to the loose ball.  After the ball was dead, B23 stands over A82 taunting him.  The clock reads 0:00 at the end of the first half.  Ruling?

Team B is responsible for the ball being dead behind their own goal line, so the result of the play is a safety. Team B will put the ball next in play so PSK applies for the IBB foul by B23. Two points for team A, team B will kick from B-5, extend the period. Team A may take two points and decline the IBB foul by B23, in which case the UNS foul by B23 carries over to the second half kickoff (the likely scenario).

[Kalle]

A 4/13 @ A48. A11's punt lands at the B2 and A48 bats the ball backwards to keep it from going over the goal line where it is recovered at the B3 by B12. B12 advances the ball to the B30 where he is hit and fumbles. A88 recovers the loose ball and advances it across B's goal line. During A88's run, B18 is flagged for holding at the B12. Ruling?

Oldie but goldie. The foul for DH is declined by rule. Team B has the option to take the ball at the spot of the illegal touching. 1/10@B-2 for team B. If A88 is tackled in the field of play, team A will keep the ball after enforcing the team B DH foul. This is intentional, as there is an A.R. (6-3-2-III) with the same play situation.

[NotEdHochuli]

May be a dumb one, but turned into a real headscratcher: Team A punts from his own 7. Team B blocks the punt and tries to recover the ball. A stumbling Team B player, while trying to pick up the ball kicks it accidentally and it enters Team A's endzone, where is recovered by a Team A player, not the punter.

[Legacy Zebra]

May be a dumb one, but turned into a real headscratcher: Team A punts from his own 7. Team B blocks the punt and tries to recover the ball. A stumbling Team B player, while trying to pick up the ball kicks it accidentally and it enters Team A's endzone, where is recovered by a Team A player, not the punter.

Unless the ball crossed the neutral zone at some point, the ball continues in play. If Team A does not get the ball out if the end zone, it is a safety. The kick remains a kick and Team A retains responsibility for it since unintentional kicking and other muffs do not add new impetus. If the ball did cross the NZ after it was blocked, it is dead when A recovers it and is a safety.

[Kalle]

Unless the ball crossed the neutral zone at some point, the ball continues in play. If Team A does not get the ball out if the end zone, it is a safety. The kick remains a kick and Team A retains responsibility for it since unintentional kicking and other muffs do not add new impetus. If the ball did cross the NZ after it was blocked, it is dead when A recovers it and is a safety.

And, assuming this was a fourth down, as it is a kick and not a fumble, any team A player may pick the ball up and advance from the end zone (if the kick did not cross the NZ).

[NotEdHochuli]

Thank you both. It was what I thought, the ball never crossed the neutral zone so no change of possession there. We weren't sure if the impetus of Team B constituted "new impetus" and that would've spared Team A from the safety.

[dvasques]

Oldie but goldie. The foul for DH is declined by rule. Team B has the option to take the ball at the spot of the illegal touching. 1/10@B-2 for team B. If A88 is tackled in the field of play, team A will keep the ball after enforcing the team B DH foul. This is intentional, as there is an A.R. (6-3-2-III) with the same play situation.

I know there's an AR with that play and that result. But why is this not a 10-2-2-d-2-b kind of play? Run is over in the end zone, after change of team possession and it's not a try nor a safety

[Kalle]

I know there's an AR with that play and that result. But why is this not a 10-2-2-d-2-b kind of play? Run is over in the end zone, after change of team possession and it's not a try nor a safety

That rule applies to non-scoring plays and the result here is a score. Basically rule 10-2-5-a-2 trumps 10-2-2-d-2-b.

[BlindZebra]

Happy Monday! 

4. 3rd & 8 @ B-16.  Team A has no timeouts, 4th quarter, 20 seconds on the clock.  QB A11
completes a pass to the TE A80 at the B-10.  A11 hurries toward the LOS motioning to
spike the ball.  The Team A coach, seeing the QB is about to spike the ball on 4th down,
runs out onto the field past the numbers yelling at him to stop.  The L flags the coach for
UNS with 0:09 on the clock.  Ruling?

[Bwest]

Happy Monday! 

4. 3rd & 8 @ B-16.  Team A has no timeouts, 4th quarter, 20 seconds on the clock.  QB A11
completes a pass to the TE A80 at the B-10.  A11 hurries toward the LOS motioning to
spike the ball.  The Team A coach, seeing the QB is about to spike the ball on 4th down,
runs out onto the field past the numbers yelling at him to stop.  The L flags the coach for
UNS with 0:09 on the clock.  Ruling?

The foul stopped the clock, so we'll have a 10 second runoff. Game over.

[Andrew McCarthy]

The foul stopped the clock, so we'll have a 10 second runoff. Game over.

This is what I would rule as well but note the wording of the rule... "if a player of either team commits a foul that causes the clock to stop".

[Bwest]

This is what I would rule as well but note the wording of the rule... "if a player of either team commits a foul that causes the clock to stop".

Where did you see that? My copy of 3-4-4-a says:

10-Second Runoff from Game Clock--Foul
ARTICLE 4. a. With the game clock running and less than one minute remaining
in either half, before a change of team possession if either team commits a foul that
causes the clock to stop, the officials may subtract 10 seconds from the game clock
at the option of the offended team.