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Author Topic: Why is this not a TD?  (Read 3900 times)

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Offline GCaptain

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Why is this not a TD?
« on: January 31, 2020, 08:59:11 PM »
Dear All.

I would like to ask you a question regarding this old game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJegRnYJts

Watch from 2:25. Can you please explain to me why this is not a TD? Thanks.
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Offline js in sc

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 09:40:37 PM »
Is it not a rule in the last part of the game, only the player fumbling can recover the fumble?
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Offline Magician

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 10:01:42 PM »
Quote from: js in sc on January 31, 2020, 09:40:37 PM
Is it not a rule in the last part of the game, only the player fumbling can recover the fumble?

Possibly. This also looks like the 80s so the rules could have also been different back then. Only the fumbler advancing a fumble is likely the scenario.
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2020, 06:33:16 AM »
The video states it is 1995.  In the final two minutes or on 4th down, only the fumbler may advance a loose ball.

It was a response to the old Holy Roller play - https://youtu.be/aGffYc5eXnA
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2020, 08:38:21 AM »
For the uninitiated, let's be sure everyone understands that the video is of NFL football. I have no real idea about NFL rules, but, I do believe they have rules regarding catch/recovery of a fumbled ball that are related to "time of game."

The NCAA also has rules related to the catch/recovery of a fumble.  To distinguish from the NFL, for NCAA, those rules only apply to Team A on 4th down or during tries (and before a change of team possession, regardless of time of game).  So, if Team B gets possession of a ball and it remains alive, there are no special rules regarding catch/recovery of a subsequent fumble by Team B. Yes, there is a rule about a forward fumble out-of-bounds that applies to both teams, at all times (ball returned to the spot of the fumble).  But the catch/recovery of a fumble rule only applies to Team A, and only on 4th downs and tries, and before a change of team possession (for Team A, only the fumbler may advance ball; dead where caught/recovered by any other A player; ball placed where caught/recovered by any other A player if behind the spot of the fumble; ball returned to the spot of the fumble if caught/recovered by any other A player beyond the spot of the fumble).
 
So, in the down in question, that would have been a TD in an NCAA game.

This is the aggravating thing about rule differences between the NCAA and the NFL.  Folks may see something during one type of game, and see it ruled (correctly) one way, then it happens in the other type of game, and it gets ruled differently, and the spectators/viewers think the officials screwed it up (especially the TV 'talent').  That is one good thing about having rules experts in the booth these days, to give the correct explanation.  But, that's just the way it is.  We live with it.

Robert
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2020, 11:01:37 PM »
Quote from: GCaptain on January 31, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
Dear All.

I would like to ask you a question regarding this old game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJegRnYJts

Watch from 2:25. Can you please explain to me why this is not a TD? Thanks.
In the NFL, after the 2-minute warning of each half, the 4th down fumble rule (only the fumbler can advance the ball, unless there is a change of possession) extends to any down, not just 4th. This is why the play in question was not ruled a TD.
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Offline JasonTX

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2020, 02:46:36 PM »
Quote from: ilyazhito on February 01, 2020, 11:01:37 PM
In the NFL, after the 2-minute warning of each half, the 4th down fumble rule (only the fumbler can advance the ball, unless there is a change of possession) extends to any down, not just 4th. This is why the play in question was not ruled a TD.
  There is a change of possession.   Team A fumbled and Team B recovered.  One team B player recovered and fumbled and then his teammate recovered for an apparent TD.
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Offline js in sc

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2020, 02:54:42 PM »
Quote from: JasonTX on February 02, 2020, 02:46:36 PM
  There is a change of possession.   Team A fumbled and Team B recovered.  One team B player recovered and fumbled and then his teammate recovered for an apparent TD.
Does it really matter which team the fumbler is on?  He is still the only one who can advance.
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Offline JasonTX

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 03:32:41 PM »
Quote from: js in sc on February 02, 2020, 02:54:42 PM
Does it really matter which team the fumbler is on?  He is still the only one who can advance.
NFL rules make no sense.   I will quit trying to make sense of them.
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2020, 08:05:06 AM »
It doesn't make much sense. If there was a change of possession, the 4th down fumble rule shouldn't apply. However, if the NFL wants to prevent "Holy Roller" type plays from occurring, then I understand why the officials ruled that way.
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Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2020, 08:23:53 AM »
Welcome, GCaptain, to our forum. I hope you'll find it both enjoyable and informative. In the NFHS code, an intentional fumble could be treated as an illegal forward pass with enforcement as such. The previous posters have explained how the other codes would have applied.
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Offline bossman72

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2020, 10:01:21 PM »
Quote from: js in sc on February 02, 2020, 02:54:42 PM
Does it really matter which team the fumbler is on?  He is still the only one who can advance.

FWIW, in NCAA, if this was 4th down, it would still be a TD, as that rule only applies to Team A.
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Why is this not a TD?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2020, 01:59:09 AM »
Quote from: bossman72 on February 03, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
FWIW, in NCAA, if this was 4th down, it would still be a TD, as that rule only applies to Team A.

And if team A recovers a team B fumble during a 4th down, advances, fumbles and another team A player recovers in the EZ, it would still be a TD, as the restriction only applies before a change of team possession :)
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