40-Second Play Clock and Succeeding Spot Fouls

[blandis]

Play: Team A gains a 1st down to the 50-yard line. During the play Team A's Head Coach believes a face mask foul was missed by the crew. When the play ends inbounds at the 50-yard line Team A's Head Coach begins to berate the crew and receives a 15-yard Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul. The new rule has a hiccup in regards to a play like this because it could never be 1st and 25 against Team A unless the foul occurred after the traditional Ready-For-Play signal. With the new 40-second rule is it prudent to keep the enforcement 1st and 10 at the A-35-yardline until the Umpire "spots the ball ready-for-play" or do we enforce it as 1st and 25 from the A-35-yard line since there is no Ready-For_play signal on this type of play? I'd love to see responses and rules references. I'm thinking that the NFHS overlooked this one.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Not sure how you would write the rule to cover this.  I'd suggest that we would use common sense as our guide and enforce as we always have.  If the chains are set and the ball is clearly spotted and we're ready for play, it's going to be an "after the ready" enforcement, 1st and 25, otherwise we implement as a "before the ready" DB foul and we'll have a 1st and 10.  We've gotten pretty clear guidance that we have a true "virtual RFP" that effectively is the same as we have always had, just without the explicit signals.  That being said, unless it's absolutely clear that we're RFP well before the coach erupts and the flag flies, I'd think that we want to go the 1st and 10 after the enforcement route.

[Kalle]

FWIW the NCAA rule language is:

"The penalty for any dead-ball foul (including live-ball fouls treated as dead-ball fouls) that occurs after a series ends and before the ball is ready for play shall be completed before the line to gain is established."

"A dead ball is ready for play when, with the 40-second play clock running, an official places the ball at a hash mark or between the inbounds marks and steps away to his position."

[Magician]

There is still a ready for play. Rather than being a whistle and signal on every play, some occur when the U places the ball and steps away. You still have a line of demarcation when the RFP is referenced in other places of the rule book.

[bossman72]

The U typically wouldn't step away until the RFP was blown under the old 25 sec clock, so really, you won't notice a difference if this play happens.

[CalhounLJ]

I’m slowly but surely coming around to the :40. Thanks for all the patience and guidance. I too don’t see a problem in this situation. If the ball has been spotted and the ump is moving away when the coach throws a fit it’s gonna be 1st and 25. If the fit is before the ball is down it will be 1st and 10.


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[bama_stripes]

If the ball has been spotted and the ump is moving away when the coach throws a fit it’s gonna be 1st and 25. If the fit is before the ball is down it will be 1st and 10.

Does this put more pressure on the covering official to throw an early USC flag, rather than wait a little longer to see if the coach will calm down?  If the coach’s diatribe begins before the placement of the ball but continues afterward, when do we deem the foul took place?

[AlUpstateNY]

Does this put more pressure on the covering official to throw an early USC flag, rather than wait a little longer to see if the coach will calm down?  If the coach’s diatribe begins before the placement of the ball but continues afterward, when do we deem the foul took place?

Please, the Coach (and ONLY the Coach) is totally and exclusively responsible for WHATEVER consequences result from the Coach's chosen behavior.

" If the ball has been spotted and the ump is moving away when the coach throws a fit it’s gonna be 1st and 25. If the fit is before the ball is down it will be 1st and 10.", seems a reasonable and appropriate assessment, but each situation is unique and that determination (when whatever said reaches an "unsportsmanlike manner")  is part of the EXCLUSIVE determination by the involved official. [/b][/i]
 

[CalhounLJ]

Does this put more pressure on the covering official to throw an early USC flag, rather than wait a little longer to see if the coach will calm down?  If the coach’s diatribe begins before the placement of the ball but continues afterward, when do we deem the foul took place?

I see your point, but it’s really no different than the old way. If he happened to be on one of my wings I wouldn’t hold the ready just to let him have his say. I’d blow it in and let my guy decide when the coach needed the flag.  Also, in the heat of the moment I’m pretty sure nobody is thinking “should I throw my flag now to keep it from being 1st and 25?” I think the flag comes when the flag needs to come and the coach gets to live with the consequences.


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