TASO Mini Quiz 8

[dammitbobby]

I feel like I rushed through these so I am sure I got some incorrect.

1. 4th and 2 at the B-23. Team A attempts an unsuccessful field goal that B2 touches at the B-1 and it goes into Team B end zone where B2 recovers the ball. RULING:

B’s Ball 1/10 at the B23, middle position by rule.  The block is not considered a touch by Team B since it occurred behind (or within 1 yard) of the neutral zone, and it is a dead ball once it enters the end zone.

2. PAT attempt by kick. The kick is partially blocked at the line of scrimmage but is recovered by B33 at the B- 1. B33 runs parallel to his goal line for about 5 yards before retreating into his end zone in an attempt to avoid tacklers and get around them. B33 is tackled in the end zone. RULING:

In 6 man, this is a dead ball when the ball is kicked (assuming no block), so be careful not to be too quick on the whistle – some whitehats want it blown dead the instant it leaves his foot (right or wrong, just my experience).  But, since it was blocked, we have a live ball, and during a try after touchdown the ball becomes dead when Team B gains possession or it is obvious that a kick is unsuccessful. (from the 6-man exceptions.)  Since the ball was recovered in the field of play, it should be whistled dead.  Result of the play is no score, proceed to kickoff.

For 11-man, the result of the play is a one-point safety.  Momentum must be original momentum which caused the runner to enter the end zone.  It does not apply when a runner willingly retreats into his own end zone.


3. 2-point PAT attempt. Team A commits an illegal motion foul. A8 fumbles the ball at the B-3. B45 recovers the ball and advances for an apparent touchdown. During B45’s run, B76 clips. In another part of the field, during the same run, A22 punches an opponent in a combative manner. RULING:

Initial result of the play is a 2-pt TD by B.  A’s foul is declined by rule and B76’s clip is enforced, resulting in an unsuccessful try.  However, A22 is disqualified, and that personal foul will be enforced on the KO.  (not 100% sure I got the explanation right)


4. 3d and 8 at the A-10. A tries to run an option play and the QB’s pitch (backward pass) from the A-8 forces A20 to run backwards towards his goal line where he recovers the ball at the A-2 but his momentum carries him into his end zone where he is tackled. RULING:

Momentum rule (8-5-1-a exception) applies, as A20’s impetus on the ball is imparted when he possesses the ball at the A-2.  He did not willingly/intentionally retreat into the end zone as in question 2.

5. 2d and 10 at the A-5. A’s fumble is rolling on the ground at the A-5 when B18 bats it backwards to B45 at the A-8. The ball bounces off A88 at the A-8 and rebounds into A’s end zone and then rolls out of bounds. RULING:

8-7-2-A The impetus imparted by a player who kicks, passes, snaps or fumbles the ball shall be considered responsible for the ball’s progress in any direction even though its course is deflected or reversed after striking the ground or after touching an official or a player of either team.
So, B18’s bat is the last impetus on the ball, when it went OOB in the end zone.

(not sure on this one either)

Since B’s impetus caused it to go OOB in their end zone, this should be a touchback.  It’s not a safety since A was not responsible for the ball being in the end zone.

[Legacy Zebra]

1. This is not a block, it is a touch. Blocking is an attempt to prevent the ball from crossing the neutral zone. In this case, the ball was simply touched. Because it was touched prior to going into the end zone, it remains live until it is recovered. The kick is still the impetus however, so it will be a touchback. B 1/10 @ B-20.

2. Agree on the results in both 6 and 11 player football. A mechanics note: don’t blow the whistle until the ball is actually dead. Yes, when it’s kicked it will eventually either be good or no good, but the ball isn’t dead by rule yet so don’t blow the whistle. First of all, by definition it is an IW. I what happens when a kicker misses the kick, but his coach argues you had an IW and he gets to replay the down? Second of all, players can still foul between the toe hitting leather and the end of the down. Very specifically running into or roughing the kicker. These are live ball fouls. But how can you have a live ball foul if you’ve already blown the whistle? Third, I’ve seen (multiple) white hats forget the difference between a try and a field goal from scrimmage and blow their whistle on a normal scrimmage down. In one case a team got to rekick a blocked fg and won the game. If you do it right every time, you don’t have to worry about it.


3. You got the enforcement right. No score, try is over, A22 is ejected and his PF is enforced on the kickoff. Because B fouled, A’s foul is not declined by rule, it is canceled. This play highlights the difference between fouls offsetting and fouls canceling. These fouls cancel, so the down is not repeated. If B had fouled first and then A fouled after the change of possession, they would offset and the down would be repeated.

4. Momentum only applies to opponent’s loose balls. If you catch or recover your own team’s loose ball, you’re on your own. This is a safety.

5. Correct. Touchback.

[ElvisLives]

I feel like I rushed through these so I am sure I got some incorrect.

1. 4th and 2 at the B-23. Team A attempts an unsuccessful field goal that B2 touches at the B-1 and it goes into Team B end zone where B2 recovers the ball. RULING:

B’s Ball 1/10 at the B23, middle position by rule.  The block is not considered a touch by Team B since it occurred behind (or within 1 yard) of the neutral zone, and it is a dead ball once it enters the end zone.
What blocking? The ball was snapped at the B-23, and B2 "touched" the ball at the B-1. By rule, blocking of a kick that occurs with in three (3) yards of the NZ is treated as though hit occurred in or behind the NZ. The fact that the ball was touched by B in the field of play removes the instantaneous touchback when (and if) the ball touches the ground in the end zone - the ball remains alive. Again, an ambiguity in the question does not allow us to know positively if B2 is on his feet, or "grounded" when he recovers the ball, but, by experience, it is safe to 'assume' the ball is declared dead behind B's goal line, in B2's possession. As with any other scrimmage kick that is touched by B beyond the NZ and becomes dead in B's end zone, this is a touchback, B, 1/10, B-20, snap (25).

2. PAT attempt by kick. The kick is partially blocked at the line of scrimmage but is recovered by B33 at the B- 1. B33 runs parallel to his goal line for about 5 yards before retreating into his end zone in an attempt to avoid tacklers and get around them. B33 is tackled in the end zone. RULING:

In 6 man, this is a dead ball when the ball is kicked (assuming no block), so be careful not to be too quick on the whistle – some whitehats want it blown dead the instant it leaves his foot (right or wrong, just my experience).  But, since it was blocked, we have a live ball, and during a try after touchdown the ball becomes dead when Team B gains possession or it is obvious that a kick is unsuccessful. (from the 6-man exceptions.)  Since the ball was recovered in the field of play, it should be whistled dead.  Result of the play is no score, proceed to kickoff.

For 11-man, the result of the play is a one-point safety.  Momentum must be original momentum which caused the runner to enter the end zone.  It does not apply when a runner willingly retreats into his own end zone.


3. 2-point PAT attempt. Team A commits an illegal motion foul. A8 fumbles the ball at the B-3. B45 recovers the ball and advances for an apparent touchdown. During B45’s run, B76 clips. In another part of the field, during the same run, A22 punches an opponent in a combative manner. RULING:

Initial result of the play is a 2-pt TD by B.  A’s foul is declined by rule and B76’s clip is enforced, resulting in an unsuccessful try.  However, A22 is disqualified, and that personal foul will be enforced on the KO.  (not 100% sure I got the explanation right)
Close enough. Everything you said is, effectively, correct. However, more correctly, since Team B had not fouled before gaining possession, by rule, the score is canceled, the ILM and the CLP fouls cancel, and the down is over. A22's flagrant UNR will be enforced at the kickoff. The next down is: A, kickoff, A-25, free kick timing (25), A22 is disqualified (versus 'ejected,' per UIL)

4. 3d and 8 at the A-10. A tries to run an option play and the QB’s pitch (backward pass) from the A-8 forces A20 to run backwards towards his goal line where he recovers the ball at the A-2 but his momentum carries him into his end zone where he is tackled. RULING:

Momentum rule (8-5-1-a exception) applies, as A20’s impetus on the ball is imparted when he possesses the ball at the A-2.  He did not willingly/intentionally retreat into the end zone as in question 2.
The momentum exception only applies to player's that intercept a pass or fumble (by definition, an opponent's pass/fumble), or catch/recover an opponent's kick or fumble. Thus, the result of this down is a safety, 2 points for B, with free kick to follow. A, free kick, A-20, free kick timing (25).

5. 2d and 10 at the A-5. A’s fumble is rolling on the ground at the A-5 when B18 bats it backwards to B45 at the A-8. The ball bounces off A88 at the A-8 and rebounds into A’s end zone and then rolls out of bounds. RULING:

8-7-2-A The impetus imparted by a player who kicks, passes, snaps or fumbles the ball shall be considered responsible for the ball’s progress in any direction even though its course is deflected or reversed after striking the ground or after touching an official or a player of either team.
So, B18’s bat is the last impetus on the ball, when it went OOB in the end zone.

(not sure on this one either)

Since B’s impetus caused it to go OOB in their end zone, this should be a touchback.  It’s not a safety since A was not responsible for the ball being in the end zone.
8-7-2-b is the more applicable reference, since it addresses batting. But, yes, touchback is the correct result. A, 1/10, A-20, snap (25).

[dammitbobby]

For 2, I knew I was rushing; I made an assumption that since the ball was live and was a kick, that it must have been blocked.  The others are straight up errors, your explanations make sense and are very helpful. Much appreciated.