Author Topic: Do you flag for holding or not? (Video) (Read 9983 times)

ncwingman · « **on:** March 03, 2015, 11:27:44 AM »

s

Saw this on reddit, which quickly turned into a discussion of "Great blocking vs. Holding" so I wanted to get other opinions and/or start some good offseason rule interpretation/philosophy debate.

On one hand, you see a still picture like this: http://i.imgur.com/QjqvtfE.jpg?1 and you'd likely call holding. #292's left arm is outside the body, preventing the defender from making a lateral step.

On the other hand, you could make the argument that the defender only makes a spin move in front of the lineman and doesn't get to make a lateral step as #292 keeps the defender in front of himself, and you'd keep the flag in your pocket.

On the third hand, context of the play probably matters significantly. Fly sweep to the right? No hold. Draw play to the left?

On the fourth hand, that's an interior lineman and I'm a wing official -- that's not my pond.

So my question for you R's and U's... holding or not? Show your work for full credit.

VALJ · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2015, 12:28:35 PM »

At first glance, looks like a grab and restrict to me. If it weren't for the spin move, would we let the OL get away with the arm wrapped around the upper body like that?

Then again, I'm told I have a reputation for being a bit flag-happy. And I'm a B now, so it's not exactly my pond either.

Curious · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2015, 01:49:15 PM »

It's ALL about the "third hand" - play goes right...nothin'; left...

HLinNC · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2015, 05:47:36 PM »

I would venture to guess that a lot of HS R's or U's would flag it.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2015, 07:32:23 PM »

Good position by the offensive lineman, defender slips to,the ground. Had he not slipped it might have turned into a hold.

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Rulesman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2015, 08:08:02 PM »

Quote from: Curious on March 03, 2015, 01:49:15 PM

It's ALL about the "third hand" - play goes right...nothin'; left...

Bwest · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2015, 07:00:22 AM »

I'm probably not flagging this.

bama_stripes · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2015, 08:46:49 AM »

Assuming this is a pass block --

every time. He could have continued the block without throwing the defender down by taking another drop step, but chose not to.

bossman72 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2015, 08:50:06 AM »

This is not holding. Feet were not beat. This was also more of the defender slipping than the blocker doing anything illegal. This would be a weak call

prab · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2015, 09:00:16 AM »

I have not been able to get the video to run, so I haven't seen the play. What was the actual ruling on the field? Holding or no call?

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2015, 09:13:17 AM »

Quote from: prab on March 04, 2015, 09:00:16 AM

I have not been able to get the video to run, so I haven't seen the play. What was the actual ruling on the field? Holding or no call?

It's a drill at a camp, there was no call to make.

prab · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2015, 09:42:47 AM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on March 04, 2015, 09:13:17 AM

It's a drill at a camp, there was no call to make.

Thanks!

CEngel · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2015, 10:23:40 AM »

We use the theory that there are three parts to a hold, grasp, restrict, & did it affect the play. No grasp, so holding isn't a possibility, however, there is a restriction. Depending on where the theoretical play was going or where on the line the only possible call would be an illegal use of hands/arms.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2015, 11:01:45 PM »

Quote from: CEngel on March 04, 2015, 10:23:40 AM

Depending on where the theoretical play was going or where on the line the only possible call would be an illegal use of hands/arms.

I can't recall that call ever being made before.

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Ralph Damren · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2015, 01:09:50 PM »

Mainer rule of

: Hold your holds unless the hold is holding up B from making a play.

Mainer rule of

: If you THINK he mighta' , coulda', woulda' = he didn't

Mainer rule of

: See everything you call, but don't call everything you see (credit to my Oregonian friend).

Mainer rule of

: Don't bet on the Red Sox 'til they're 10 games up with 9 games to go.

Rulesman · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2015, 01:44:33 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on March 10, 2015, 01:09:50 PM

Don't bet on the Red Sox 'til they're 10 games up with 9 games to go.

And they might still find a way to blow it.

stevestod · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2015, 02:58:22 PM »

Bucky Dent

Rulesman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2015, 08:02:26 PM »

Bill Buckner

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2015, 08:10:27 AM »

Here's some more.....
Enos "Country" Slaughter - Sox SS held ball in game 7 as Enos scored from 1st on
a single.

Babe Ruth (the sale of)

and.......some more.....

Big Papi - 2013 WS

Sweep of Rockies in 2007

Sweep of Cards in 2004

Bouncing back from 0-3 to beat Yanks for flag

Magician · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2015, 08:05:47 AM »

The category this would go into is a take down. He did have good feet so he gets a lot more leeway, but if he had grabbed the guy and pulled him to the ground with his hands, it would be a hold. I could support a hold in this play. If you felt the defender went down because he lost his balance rather than the arm of the blocker, then it's not a foul. In the end I think this isn't a foul.

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2015, 08:27:44 AM »

This was a drill. Unless you know where the ball is going, how do you know if this is at the POA, or if it is restricting the lineman from reaching the runner? If the ball is going through B or C gap on the left side, I see a hold. If it is going around right end, I've got nothing.

Looking at this in a vacuum is like the old George Carlin line about the partial score from the West Coast, "Stanford 7."

It's all relative.

NoVaBJ · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2015, 10:37:31 PM »

This is a takedown. It's a foul. Every time, point of attack be damned.

Author Topic: Do you flag for holding or not? (Video) (Read 9983 times)

CEngel

stevestod